Why do Americans think Spanish people (aka Spaniards aka Europeans) are non-white? (invasion, school)
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97% of argentina people ( 40 million of them ) are white ,of european descent ( see : CIA Book of Facts , countries of the world ) the rest 3% are native american indians, there are no blacks or "african american" in Argentina.) I f you are born in Argentina there is an almost ( 97% ) chance that your birth certificate wil read something likes this "..a child of white race was born on this date to parents name ..etc. etc." . In fact Argentina , is one of the "whitest" nations in the world !
It is true that there is 'Moorish blood' in Spain, but it has been exaggerated. Moorish blood is more important in Italy, for instance. Take a look at this graphic: [url="http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/%7Emcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf"].
Wow, look at the Tibetan Y chromosomes in Japan. They are clearly not the same people as the Chinese (Jomon Caucasoid input?). There must have been a group (Caucasoid?) stretching from Tibet to Japan that the Han displaced. And look how close the Russians and Indians are on the Y, 50% (male Aryans conquering India?).
Most invaded place? Uzbekistan, smack in the middle of Eurasia.
Least invaded place? South America, the most isolated continent.
These are all "native" people, before white colonialism, of course.
Anyway, the US has traditionally been a very Teutonic country: English, German, Dutch and Scandinavian. That has shaped our view of who is white. If you look at old Civil War photos, nearly everyone has light eyes.
Last edited by greyfox2000; 05-24-2009 at 07:30 PM..
I mostly agree with you. I live in the Chicago area( suburbs to be exact) and I never met a hispanic that call themselves white, they are proud to be hispanic/latino. I remember meeting a Cuban that had blue eyes, light skin with visible Spainard ancestries. Anyway, he is originally from Miami, and he remember being called a ''****'' by whites as a kid. Even though he have strong Spainard straits, he consider himself hispanic, and not white.
In California there are people who refer to themselves as both white and Mexican. I've heard that some white Mexican-Americans in Texas do not like to be called Mexican-American or Chicano but stress the white side of their identity. This is not even including the HUGE number of people in CA and TX and other Southwestern states who are a mixture of "Anglo" and Mexican heritage.
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Its somewhat the same with Arabs. I know technically alot of them are white and are included as white on the census, but in most cases they are not seen as white in American society. Alot of Arabs(especially those of Palestine descent) said it themselves that they don't consider themselves as white.
Much more so these days, 30 years ago it was a different story. Arabs are the only group in the US who have ceased to be seen as "white', although this is probably temporary.
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If I'm not mistaken, most of American Presidents were of Anglo-Saxon descent( dominately of Protestant religion), until now in year 2008.
Most US presidents and vice presidents have had last names which could be found in UK phone books. The exceptions: Van Buren, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Agnew (admittedly there'd be people named Agnopolous in a London phone book due to London's sizeable Greek population), Rockefeller (OK, that name could be found in a UK phone book but as part of the name of a charity or medical institution rather than a last name of a person), and Obama.
I disagree, because if you apply to be a cop. you have to state if your white, black or whatever you are
You can check off White and Hispanic or Black and Hispanic.
When US racial categories were set up, there was a conception of groups being "fixed" (in the case of Hispanic ethnicity this was always inaccurate). The increasing multiracial nature of US society has made these concepts obsolete.
FWIW, many French Caribbean mixed race immigrants DETEST being referred to as black, mainly because they didn't grow up in African-American culture and they're not considered black in their homelands. One could make a case for African-American being an ethnicity/culture rather than a race.
You can check off White and Hispanic or Black and Hispanic.
When US racial categories were set up, there was a conception of groups being "fixed" (in the case of Hispanic ethnicity this was always inaccurate). The increasing multiracial nature of US society has made these concepts obsolete.
FWIW, many French Caribbean mixed race immigrants DETEST being referred to as black, mainly because they didn't grow up in African-American culture and they're not considered black in their homelands. One could make a case for African-American being an ethnicity/culture rather than a race.
As an African American myself, its more of an ethnicity/culture that apply to people that are descendants of African slaves in the states. Most Africans that are connected to Africa, refer to themselves by their native country , and not African American. Barack Obama is an exception, but that might have to do with him being biracial also. I know African American technically can apply to anyone of African descent, but its usually refer to only American blacks that been here for more than 100 years or so.
I mostly agree with you. I live in the Chicago area( suburbs to be exact) and I never met a hispanic that call themselves white, they are proud to be hispanic/latino. I remember meeting a Cuban that had blue eyes, light skin with visible Spainard ancestries. Anyway, he is originally from Miami. Even though he have strong Spainard straits, he consider himself hispanic, and not white.
Its somewhat the same with Arabs. I know technically alot of them are white and are included as white on the census, but in most cases they are not seen as white in American society. Alot of Arabs(especially those of Palestine descent) said it themselves that they don't consider themselves as white.
I also know Russians who don't consider themselves white, even though they're of much lighter complexion than Spaniards.
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Originally Posted by majoun
You can check off White and Hispanic or Black and Hispanic.
When US racial categories were set up, there was a conception of groups being "fixed" (in the case of Hispanic ethnicity this was always inaccurate). The increasing multiracial nature of US society has made these concepts obsolete.
FWIW, many French Caribbean mixed race immigrants DETEST being referred to as black, mainly because they didn't grow up in African-American culture and they're not considered black in their homelands. One could make a case for African-American being an ethnicity/culture rather than a race.
Exactly. One could also make a case for White being an ethnicity/culture rather than race. In fact, the boundary between race and ethnicity in America is pretty blurred, something that is quite inevitable. This is why I don't blame those who call Hispanic or Latino a race, although technically speaking it's not. Similarly, Asian is in some ways closer to ethnicity than race in the classical sense.
I also know Russians who don't consider themselves white, even though they're of much lighter complexion than Spaniards.
Exactly. One could also make a case for White being an ethnicity/culture rather than race. In fact, the boundary between race and ethnicity in America is pretty blurred, something that is quite inevitable. This is why I don't blame those who call Hispanic or Latino a race, although technically speaking it's not. Similarly, Asian is in some ways closer to ethnicity than race in the classical sense.
Saludos
Really? Russia is located between two continents: Europe and Asia. Some Russians have more typical Asian features, I think the ones that are located on the Asia border. And also, Caucasian is not seen as white in Russia, but actually refer to the Asian countries in the Caucasus region.
I think a lot of people look at Hispanic/latino as a race, even though its not. We even have Puerto Rican Day Parades and Cinco De Mayo when Puerto Rican and Mexican is simply just a nationality like American. I think its because they have a defined culture that make it seem like the latino nationalities are legit ethnicities.
That is like if Americans are immigrants in Canada and start having American neighborhoods/enclaves in let say Toronto, Canada. Since America doesn't have a define culture, nobody is going to buy into American is seen as an ethnicity like Jamaicans, Mexicans, and other Carribeans and Latin Americans.
Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 05-25-2009 at 12:47 AM..
Really? Russia is located between two continents: Europe and Asia. Some Russians have more typical Asian features, I think the ones that are located on the Asia border. And also, Caucasian is not seen as white in Russia, but actually refer to the Asian countries in the Caucasus region.
I think a lot of people look at Hispanic/latino as a race, even though its not. We even have Puerto Rican Day Parades and Cinco De Mayo when Puerto Rican and Mexican is simply just a nationality like American. I think its because they have a defined culture that make it seem like the latino nationalities are legit ethnicities.
That is like if Americans are immigrants in Canada and start having American neighborhoods/enclaves in let say Toronto, Canada. Since America doesn't have a define culture, nobody is going to buy into American is seen as an ethnicity like Jamaicans, Mexicans, and other Carribeans and Latin Americans.
Yes. The Russians I'm talking about look European. In fact, I personally don't know any Russians who look more like Chinese. I know a Russian speaking woman who does, but she's Kazakh.
"White" as used in practice is in the US DEFINITELY not racial. It seems to mean European or the descendant of Europeans and Not Muslim.
If you want a very sick laugh, look up some of the early 20th century Supreme Court cases as to who was considered white and who wasn't. In Khalid Singh Thind v. US, the SCOTUS defined white as European from any part of Europe (including Turkey). There were some other cases involving Middle Eastern nationalities, in which some (Armenians, Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians) were considered "white" and others (from the Gulf region) weren't. Not to mention the SCOTUS dismissing an Indian's claim that he was white because he was "Aryan" (in the Singh Thind case) or a Japanese claiming he was white because of coming from a "superior, accomplished nation" (the SCOTUS disagreed).
Reading those cases today is hilarious except when one realizes that in the early 20th century such matters were considered serious enough that they actually went to the Supreme Court. When one realizes the context, those cases stop being funny and start seeming disturbing.....
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race - ethnicity - culture
One could also make a case for White being an ethnicity/culture rather than race. In fact, the boundary between race and ethnicity in America is pretty blurred, something that is quite inevitable. This is why I don't blame those who call Hispanic or Latino a race, although technically speaking it's not. Similarly, Asian is in some ways closer to ethnicity than race in the classical sense.