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View Poll Results: Should the US Military Defend Georgia
No. 40 30.30%
No. We do NOT need to defend our allies. 3 2.27%
No This is the responsibility of the United Nations 16 12.12%
No The European Union should Take the lead on This. 12 9.09%
No. Georgia belongs to Russia 2 1.52%
No. Russia is justified invading Georgia 15 11.36%
No NATO should Take the lead on This. 9 6.82%
No The United Nations, European Union and NATO should Take the lead on This 15 11.36%
No, other 5 3.79%
Yes 6 4.55%
Yes, whatever it takes to help an ally 6 4.55%
Yes, but the United Nations, European Union and NATO should Take the lead on This 32 24.24%
Yes, other 2 1.52%
Not Sure 2 1.52%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-11-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,866,888 times
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They picke don NO dog.

A timeline of events leading up to Georgia response.

1 August

At about 8:00 AM, Tbilisi time, a pickup vehicle with six Georgian police officers was hit by two remote control explosive devices on the Eredvi-Kheiti by-pass road linking the Didi Liakhvi Gorge – a Georgian enclave north of the breakaway region’s capital Tskhinvali - with Georgia proper. As a result of the attack, five Georgian policemen were severely wounded. The central authorities decided not to retaliate in order not to escalate the situation.

2 August

Six civilians and one Georgian policeman were injured after the shelling of Georgian villages in the South Ossetian conflict zone overnight. The Georgian-controlled villages of Zemo Nikozi, Kvemo Nikozi, Nuli, Avnevi, Eredvi and Ergneti came under intense fire from the South Ossetian separatists with large calibre mortars. Georgian law enforcers shot back defensively for some time, but then received an order of ceasefire in order not to escalate the situation.

3 August

South Ossetian separatist government announced evacuation of more than 500 people, including about 400 children. However, Ermak Dzansolov, deputy prime minister of Russia’s North Ossetian Republic, told Interfax news agency that it was not an evacuation. Sending children to North Ossetia was part of a pre-arranged summer-camp programme, as he explained.
Russian media outlets started a massive propaganda campaign against Georgia.

South Ossetian media sources reported on the mobilization of volunteers across the North Caucasus.

During 4 and 5 August no serious incidents have been observed.


6 August

Late on 6 August, separatists opened mortar fire at Georgian populated villages of Eredvi, Prisi, Avnevi, Dvani and Nuli. Georgian government forces fired back in order to defend the positions and civilian population. As a result of intensive cross-fire during the night, two servicemen of the Georgian battalion of the Joint Peacekeeping Forces were injured. Separatist regime also claimed several injured persons on their side. Despite the targeted attacks on peaceful population and villages, as well as on the Georgian police and peacekeeping forces, the central authorities decided not to respond through heavy exchange of fire, in order not to injure the local population.

Temur Yakobashvili, Georgian chief negotiator and state minister for reintegration, said in late night televised remarks on August 6 that it was the position of the Georgian government that only a direct dialogue with Tskinvali authorities would solve the deteriorating security situation. Mr. Yakobashvili also stressed that Ambassador-at-large Yuri Popov would attend the talks as a facilitator. South Ossetian chief negotiator, Boris Chochiev, refused to take part in negotiations.

7 August

During the night and early morning intensive fire came from the Ossetian villages of Khetagurovo, Dmenisi, Sarabuki, and Ubiat. Separatist authorities continued shelling Georgian law enforcers and Peacekeeping units with mortars and artillery. The central authorities responded with limited fire in order to defend the positions.

In the morning interview with Russian news agencies, South Ossetian de facto president Eduard Kokoity declared that if the Georgian government did not withdraw its military forces from the region, he would start “to clean them out.”

President Saakashvili speaking with journalists in the military hospital in Gori, where he visited the two injured Georgian servicemen, said that despite attacks on the Georgian villages, Tbilisi was showing “maximum restraint.” Saakashvili also called on Russia to “to recall its officials” from South Ossetia, who consider themselves as the so-called South Ossetian government.

Temur Yakobashvili, visited the conflict zone in the morning of August 7 to meet with representatives of the separatist government. The State Minister met with Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of the Joint Peacekeeping Forces, in Tskhinvali. But, the separatists refused to negotiate with him.

The chairman of the separatist republic’s Security Council, Anatoly Barankevich threatened that armed groupings of Cossacks from North Ossetia were headed towards South Ossetia to fight against Georgian forces.

The separatists resumed shelling of Georgian villages Nuli and Avnevi by 16:00. Three Georgian servicemen were injured after the South Ossetian separatist forces blew up an infantry combat vehicle belonging to the Georgian peacekeeping battalion in Avnevi. Georgian police responded by firing towards the separatist armed grouping in village Khetagurovo, where two separatist militiamen were killed and two more wounded. Later, the check-point of Georgian peacekeepers was bombed in Avnevi and several Georgian servicemen and civilians were killed.

Georgia has decided to “unilaterally cease fire” in a sign of Tbilisi’s willingness to defuse tensions, Temur Yakobashvili, the Georgian state minister for reintegration, announced at a press conference in Tbilisi at 6:40pm. Yakobashvili said that he was not able to get in touch with the separatist authorities.

President Saakashvili said in a live televised address made at 7:10pm, that he had ordered the Georgian forces to cease fire in South Ossetia. He said there were casualties, both dead and many people wounded. Saakashvili said that he ordered to cease fire “on purpose” to again offer the South Ossetian secessionists to resume talks.

Despite Georgia’s decision not to return fire, the Georgian village of Avnevi again came under fire of the South Ossetian militiamen at about 8:30pm. It can be said that the village was totally destroyed as a result.

The South Ossetian separatist armed groupings fired at the Georgian-controlled village of Prisi at about 10:30 pm. The attack left several people wounded on the Georgian side.

The separatist authorities opened fire at all Georgian positions around the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali at about 23:30, including the villages of Tamarasheni and Kurta. The police stations in Kurta was destroyed as a result of heavy shelling.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,793,866 times
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Your independent unbiased source is the "Georgian Daily?"
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:02 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,866,888 times
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Do you have proof it is false?

You seem to be taking the word of state run Russian media.

Guess you find them more truthful,isn't like the Russians lie.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:07 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,866,888 times
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A little more background.

Quote:
In April 2008, the Russian government took a number of actions which increased tensions with Georgia over its separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. These included the Russian government's unilateral withdrawal from Commonwealth of Independent States economic and military sanctions; April 16th presidential instructions increasing Russia's relations with Georgia's separatist regions; and Russia's unilateral decision to deploy a large number of Russian forces and equipment to the peacekeeping mission in Abkhazia.
On 16 April 2008 President Vladimir Putin instructed Russian officials to directly cooperate with de facto authorities in Abkhazia and Tskhinvali without the permission of their Georgian counterparts. By cooperating with that de facto regime, the Russian Federation was formalizing its relations Abkhazia and South Ossetia. President Putin’s 16 April decision envisaged legalizing documents issued by the de facto separatist regime, recognizing legal personalities of legal entities registered under the so-called legislation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and legally cooperating in civil, family and criminal cases, Mr. Alasania said. Further, local representatives of the Russian Foreign Ministry in Krosnodar district and the Republic of North Ossetia-Alania were assigned consular functions to assist people permanently living in Abkhazia and the Tskhinavli region, and there were plans to consider additional proposals to strengthen cooperation in that direction.
Secretary Rice met with President Saakashvili, the Foreign Minister and members of the government, and with opposition and civil society figures during her visit to Tbilisi, July 9-10, 2008. Secretary Rice stressed that Georgia needs to continue to develop a strong parliament, strong independent media, a strong civil society, and an independent judiciary. The Secretary also said, “We need to elevate (talks on Georgia’s frozen conflicts). … We need (to talk) more intensively and at a higher level.”
On 14 July 2008 Georgian and U.S. troops started a joint military exercise amid growing tensions between the ex-Soviet republic and Russia. About 1,200 U.S. servicemen and 800 Georgians trained for three weeks at the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, Tbilisi. On the same day, the Russian Defense Ministry started a military exercise in the nearby North Caucasus region. Ministry spokesman Yuri Ivanov said the drill had "nothing to do" with the Georgian-US maneuvers.
On 14 July 2008 the United States government expressed concern over the recent escalation in violence in the Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and called upon all sides to return to direct negotiations and resolve their differences peacefully. The US was "deeply troubled" by Russia’s statement that its military aircraft deliberately violated Georgia’s internationally recognized borders by flying over Georgia’s region of South Ossetia. Such actions "raise questions about Russia's role as peacekeeper and facilitator of the negotiations and threaten stability" throughout the entire region. The US urged all members of the international community, including Russia, to support Georgia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, as called for by numerous UN Security Council resolutions, including, most recently, USNCR 1808 in April 2008. The United States said it "fully supports" and is actively engaged in the Friends of the Secretary General process and believes that the efforts of the Friends group will lead to a settlement of the conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
On July 29, Ibragim Gaseev, the South Ossetian deputy minister for defense and emergency situations said that the Georgian side had opened fire against the South Ossetian villages of Andisi and Sarabuki. The conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia intensified on Friday 01 August 2008 when Georgian forces shelled the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, leaving six South Ossetians dead and another 15 wounded. Sporadic shelling and skirmishes continued through the week.
The South Ossetians may have decided that the best form of defense was attack, and that if they escalated attacks against Georgian positions, Russia would step in and help strengthen their position.
South Ossetia
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,793,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Do you have proof it is false?

You seem to be taking the word of state run Russian media.

Guess you find them more truthful,isn't like the Russians lie.


In most conflicts both sides tend to color things a bit their way.

Not sure why that is.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:10 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,866,888 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
In most conflicts both sides tend to color things a bit their way.

Not sure why that is.
No proof I take it.

Do you believe 2000 Ossetians were killed by Georgia?
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,793,866 times
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Apparently there were heavy civilian casualties. 2000? Who knows. Any time you start heavily bombing and destroying residential areas you are going to get some serious collateral damage.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,476,501 times
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The correct answer to the poll is: "no, Georgia is not a U.S. ally." but what wasn't an option.

We have no mutual defense treaty with Georgia, in care nobody's noticed.
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:33 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,866,888 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Apparently there were heavy civilian casualties. 2000? Who knows. Any time you start heavily bombing and destroying residential areas you are going to get some serious collateral damage.
And how many casualties from the Russian attacks???
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Old 08-11-2008, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,214,577 times
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So, what should the USA do?

Pretty limited alternatives in the short term, but I would recommend the termination of working towards their admission to the World Trade Organization. I would also call an emergency meeting of NATO, and invite Ukraine to participate in the discussion.

I would continue towards the missile defense plans with Poland and the Czech Republic.
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