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Old 08-12-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,719,714 times
Reputation: 7185

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luiso View Post
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Spoken like someone who has no concept of military except from what he hears on FOX "news".
Spoken like someone who has no concept of the military except what he read on MoveOn.org...
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:53 AM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,331,636 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
Spoken like someone who has no concept of the military except what he read on MoveOn.org...

I know my time in Army I did with my head in the sand (rolls eyes).

I can tell you NEVER served a second . Stop watching FOX news and playing paint ball "wars" .

I can gaurantee you more who belong to Moveon have served than more who watch FOX network .

Folks like you watch FOX network.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:56 AM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,331,636 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH View Post
Wow, I wouldn't have expected that. But then again if you go to most reservations you do often find them living in relative poverty. They gotta eat to you know what I'm saying. And yes, I am half Cherokee Indian. I also have some roots in one of the New Mexican Indian tribes but I don't know which because it comes from my father's mother's side and she left them when they were very young. It would only be like a 1/16 or something anyway.
--------------

I went to Ft.Sill Okl for boot camp and Artillery AIT and there you have a lot of American Indians as think reservation not far .

Lots work at on post . Very nice people .
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Old 08-13-2008, 10:38 AM
 
26,162 posts, read 48,881,878 times
Reputation: 31670
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
....In this bad economy, and it is a bad economy, people join because it's a guaranteed job with some benefits. Whose rights are they fighting for in Iraq? Mine, hardly. The Iraqi's, unlikely. Big business, perhaps.
You are correct. I worked for the Army for 30 years, at various HQs in the DC area, and for Army HQs.

FACTS
1. When the economy is soaring, not only the Army has a tough time recruiting good prospects, so too does the Civil Service. Especially during the nineties we just could not compete with the high tech sector for good talent. Soldiers who had their Microsoft credentials via Army schools and on-line training were getting big bonuses to get out and go with the corporate world. We were losing a lot of people in the early 1980's too, so Reagan upped military pay as much as 18% one year, along with FAT re-up bonuses, to keep good people in uniform.

2. When the economy is in the dumper, we NEVER had trouble meeting recruiting goals and hiring good talent for civilian jobs. It's always been that way. Saw it during the late 1970's and the downturn in the Bush-41 years. For a lot of people these days, military service is about the only way to get health care, not to mention housing and food. All you have to do is put your life on the line - hopefully for VALID causes, and NOT for oil.

The are facts. Not spin. Not wishful thinking. Facts.

Meanwhile, knee-jerk flag wavers are what the Bush / Rove clowns refer to as "useful idiots" since the GOP can count on these people for support, no matter how badly they F UP our nation - and our military.

s/Mike
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:03 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,401,256 times
Reputation: 4798
So let me get this straight.

People join the military because they are broke. It brings their lifestyle up if they are broke by your def.

If we divide more money from taxing more people and forming larger social programs ("green" jobs, UHC...ect) we can bring all those "lower" class people up in class.

So basically your saying we should just give it to them and not make them earn it? And your also saying you want to hender our army the best way you know how by not allowing them the troop levels they need? Your also saying the getting rich in this country should be harder because you will be taxed more to pay for it?

By definition if we head in that direction....few will be rich but many will not be "lower" class.

Who's going to provide the jobs?


You do know the vast majority of jobs in America are considered small business.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:09 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,331,636 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
You are correct. I worked for the Army for 30 years, at various HQs in the DC area, and for Army HQs.

FACTS
1. When the economy is soaring, not only the Army has a tough time recruiting good prospects, so too does the Civil Service. Especially during the nineties we just could not compete with the high tech sector for good talent. Soldiers who had their Microsoft credentials via Army schools and on-line training were getting big bonuses to get out and go with the corporate world. We were losing a lot of people in the early 1980's too, so Reagan upped military pay as much as 18% one year, along with FAT re-up bonuses, to keep good people in uniform.

2. When the economy is in the dumper, we NEVER had trouble meeting recruiting goals and hiring good talent for civilian jobs. It's always been that way. Saw it during the late 1970's and the downturn in the Bush-41 years. For a lot of people these days, military service is about the only way to get health care, not to mention housing and food. All you have to do is put your life on the line - hopefully for VALID causes, and NOT for oil.

The are facts. Not spin. Not wishful thinking. Facts.

Meanwhile, knee-jerk flag wavers are what the Bush / Rove clowns refer to as "useful idiots" since the GOP can count on these people for support, no matter how badly they F UP our nation - and our military.

s/Mike
-----------------

Its funny how those who served or work/ed for military we all say same thing yet those who have not tell us we are wrong and moveon.org blind supporters.

It is frightfull how Rush Limbaugh -Bill Oreilly control minds .

I am sure you will agree with me when I say in combat type grunt boots on ground jobs its usually the poorest of the bunch with artillery second and lets be honest not the highest quality people .
I know I was one of the bunch (artillery) .

I think Infantry is now getting the biggest reup bonus ?

Maybe MP also as they wind up being combat MP (glorified Infantry) .
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:29 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,331,636 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
So let me get this straight.

People join the military because they are broke. It brings their lifestyle up if they are broke by your def.

If we divide more money from taxing more people and forming larger social programs ("green" jobs, UHC...ect) we can bring all those "lower" class people up in class.

So basically your saying we should just give it to them and not make them earn it? And your also saying you want to hender our army the best way you know how by not allowing them the troop levels they need? Your also saying the getting rich in this country should be harder because you will be taxed more to pay for it?

By definition if we head in that direction....few will be rich but many will not be "lower" class.

Who's going to provide the jobs?

You do know the vast majority of jobs in America are considered small business.
------------------
No one is saying give anyone anything .

Actually I am as going to vote Dem lol .

We are simply saying the lowest rung of the social ladder wind up fighting .

You wont see Trump,s , Hilton's son in the military but you will see son's of factory workers.

Again not saying give anyone anything just saying that's how the military , "our" gvmt is .

Those with nothing fight for those with so much .

Pat Tillman was the exception he was Patriotic but 80% do it to escape poverty .
Officers are another story seemed most came from money ESP the anal retentive out of touch West Point types.

Last edited by Luiso; 08-13-2008 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:51 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,331,636 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
Do you even realize how offensive that statement is to servicemen and women? You're insinuating that the military is populated by trash and trash comes pouring in when you ship their factory jobs overseas, right? Up yours, then. The idea that young men and women want to join the military and do so for reasons other than college tuition assistance is not anything new. Young men join the military, and have always joined the military, for adventure, to see how tough they are, and, frankly, to kill people. I know it's difficult for a lot of people (like you, for instance) to understand that desire for espirit-de-corps and camaraderie, the need to chest-beat and the actual desire to fight, but it's real and there is a lot of it. The P.O.G. jobs are the ones the Army has trouble filling. Direct fire combat arms stay stocked.
-------------------

I know 3 years and 4 months extension (my contract was 3 yrs) and I have no idea what I am saying but you ofcourse do.

You served ? NOT A DAY. I can tell by your statement.
-------------
"the need to chest-beat and the actual desire to fight, but it's real and there is a lot of it."

NO there is VERY LITTLE of the above many don't want to be there but once there do their job but prefer to have their platoon, squad get easy duty out of harms way.

The military has to extend them against their will but ofcourse you know lol yes you know sigh.

Again stop it with the Rush Limbaugh garbage ESP when you have no idea not the tiniest idea of what you are saying.

Enlist and find out for yourself instead of via Radio talk shows douche.
I have changed a lot in last few yrs and find the real threat the real enemy of America Neos like you.

By the way the biggest criminals I have ever met, lived with were in my Artillery platoon its no secret its reality but again you wouldnt know would you ?
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