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Old 08-15-2008, 11:57 AM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,843,081 times
Reputation: 2059

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In the first Gulf war, America and the UK did everything in their power to stop Israel getting involved, even though Israel was under threat from scud missiles. They knew that if Israel unleashed it's military might on Iraq, It would have drawn in the other rogue Arab States and Israel would have to kick their Butts again.

 
Old 08-15-2008, 12:20 PM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,867,805 times
Reputation: 2294
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
In the first Gulf war, America and the UK did everything in their power to stop Israel getting involved, even though Israel was under threat from scud missiles. They knew that if Israel unleashed it's military might on Iraq, It would have drawn in the other rogue Arab States and Israel would have to kick their Butts again.
That had more to do with it potentially tearing apart the Coalition which contained several Arab nations including Syria.
 
Old 08-15-2008, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,319,017 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
1000% in agreement with you on cutting off both countries. They're both doing just fine
Egypt first, though.
 
Old 08-15-2008, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,966,372 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Egypt first, though.
MOD CUT Why not at the same time?

You either like socialist experiments or you don't.

Last edited by NewToCA; 08-15-2008 at 08:16 PM.. Reason: too personal
 
Old 08-15-2008, 10:43 PM
 
2,141 posts, read 7,863,933 times
Reputation: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Tell you what. Let's cut off Egypt's allowance first and see what happens.

("At the 30th anniversary celebration of the U.S. aid program last year, the aid given totaled $28 billion, by far the largest amount of development aid given to any country in the world by the United States")

USAID Feature: Egypt Stories - U.S. Aid to Egypt Totals $28 Billion in Three Decades (http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/features/egypt/ - broken link)

At least that removes the possiblity of genocide.

Deal?
It's a deal
 
Old 08-16-2008, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, IN
855 posts, read 2,395,725 times
Reputation: 702
There once was a Jewish broker who helped raise funds to finance the American Revolution. While he obviously wasn't an Israeli as the country didn't exist at the time, his contributions and sacrifices during a time that many Jews were looked upon as ruthless money lenders is historically significant although some may not realize it. I remember a year or two before the Bicentennial there was a stamp issued in his honor.

Maybe it's something of a reach to imagine that one nation would support another because of the actions of one man(Although other Jews made contributions during the Revolution as well) who wasn't from the aforementioned country but it's not impossible. Maybe there wouldn't have been a United States without his aid and maybe it has something to do with why we've been mostly supportive of them for the past 60 years as well.

Haym Salomon (ca. 1740 - 1785)
by Bob Blythe

Salomon (sometimes written as Solomon and Solomons in period documents) was a Polish-born Jewish immigrant to America who played an important role in financing the Revolution. When the war began, Salomon was operating as a financial broker in New York City. He seems to have been drawn early to the Patriot side and was arrested by the British as a spy in 1776. He was pardoned and used by the British as an interpreter with their German troops. Salomon, however, continued to help prisoners of the British escape and encouraged German soldiers to desert. Arrested again in 1778, he was sentenced to death, but managed to escape to the rebel capital of Philadelphia, where he resumed his career as a broker and dealer in securities. He soon became broker to the French consul and paymaster to French troops in America.

Salomon arrived in Philadelphia as the Continental Congress was struggling to raise money to support the war. Congress had no powers of direct taxation and had to rely on requests for money directed to the states, which were mostly refused. The government had no choice but to borrow money and was ultimately bailed out only by loans from the French and Dutch governments. Government finances were in a chaotic state in 1781 when Congress appointed former Congressman Robert Morris superintendent of finances. Morris established the Bank of North America and proceeded to finance the Yorktown campaign of Washington and Rochambeau. Morris relied on public-spirited financiers like Salomon to subscribe to the bank, find purchasers for government bills of exchange, and lend their own money to the government.

From 1781 on, Salomon brokered bills of exchange for the American government and extended interest-free personal loans to members of Congress, including James Madison. Salomon married Rachel Franks in 1777 and had four children with her. He was an influential member of Philadelphia’s Mikveh Israel congregation, founded in 1740. He helped lead the fight to overturn restrictive Pennsylvania laws barring non-Christians from holding public office. Like many elite citizens of Philadelphia, he owned at least one slave, a man named Joe, who ran away in 1780. Possibly as a result of his purchases of government debt, Salomon died penniless in 1785. His descendants in the nineteenth century attempted to obtain compensation from Congress, but were unsuccessful. The extent of Salomon’s claim on the government cannot be determined, because the documentation disappeared long ago.

In 1941, the George Washington-Robert Morris-Haym Salomon Memorial was erected along Wacker Drive in downtown Chicago. The bronze and stone memorial was conceived by sculptor Lorado Taft and finished by his student, Leonard Crunelle. Although Salomon’s role in financing the Revolution has at times been exaggerated, his willingness to take financial risks for the Patriot cause helped establish the new nation.


To learn more:


Laurens R. Schwartz, Jews and the American Revolution: Haym Salomon and Others (Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland & Co., 1987).

The American Revolution: Haym Salomon
 
Old 08-16-2008, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,966,372 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLK55 View Post
There once was a Jewish broker who helped raise funds to finance the American Revolution. While he obviously wasn't an Israeli as the country didn't exist at the time, his contributions and sacrifices during a time that many Jews were looked upon as ruthless money lenders is historically significant although some may not realize it. I remember a year or two before the Bicentennial there was a stamp issued in his honor.

Maybe it's something of a reach to imagine that one nation would support another because of the actions of one man(Although other Jews made contributions during the Revolution as well) who wasn't from the aforementioned country but it's not impossible. Maybe there wouldn't have been a United States without his aid and maybe it has something to do with why we've been mostly supportive of them for the past 60 years as well.

Haym Salomon (ca. 1740 - 1785)
by Bob Blythe

Salomon (sometimes written as Solomon and Solomons in period documents) was a Polish-born Jewish immigrant to America who played an important role in financing the Revolution. When the war began, Salomon was operating as a financial broker in New York City. He seems to have been drawn early to the Patriot side and was arrested by the British as a spy in 1776. He was pardoned and used by the British as an interpreter with their German troops. Salomon, however, continued to help prisoners of the British escape and encouraged German soldiers to desert. Arrested again in 1778, he was sentenced to death, but managed to escape to the rebel capital of Philadelphia, where he resumed his career as a broker and dealer in securities. He soon became broker to the French consul and paymaster to French troops in America.

Salomon arrived in Philadelphia as the Continental Congress was struggling to raise money to support the war. Congress had no powers of direct taxation and had to rely on requests for money directed to the states, which were mostly refused. The government had no choice but to borrow money and was ultimately bailed out only by loans from the French and Dutch governments. Government finances were in a chaotic state in 1781 when Congress appointed former Congressman Robert Morris superintendent of finances. Morris established the Bank of North America and proceeded to finance the Yorktown campaign of Washington and Rochambeau. Morris relied on public-spirited financiers like Salomon to subscribe to the bank, find purchasers for government bills of exchange, and lend their own money to the government.

From 1781 on, Salomon brokered bills of exchange for the American government and extended interest-free personal loans to members of Congress, including James Madison. Salomon married Rachel Franks in 1777 and had four children with her. He was an influential member of Philadelphia’s Mikveh Israel congregation, founded in 1740. He helped lead the fight to overturn restrictive Pennsylvania laws barring non-Christians from holding public office. Like many elite citizens of Philadelphia, he owned at least one slave, a man named Joe, who ran away in 1780. Possibly as a result of his purchases of government debt, Salomon died penniless in 1785. His descendants in the nineteenth century attempted to obtain compensation from Congress, but were unsuccessful. The extent of Salomon’s claim on the government cannot be determined, because the documentation disappeared long ago.

In 1941, the George Washington-Robert Morris-Haym Salomon Memorial was erected along Wacker Drive in downtown Chicago. The bronze and stone memorial was conceived by sculptor Lorado Taft and finished by his student, Leonard Crunelle. Although Salomon’s role in financing the Revolution has at times been exaggerated, his willingness to take financial risks for the Patriot cause helped establish the new nation.


To learn more:


Laurens R. Schwartz, Jews and the American Revolution: Haym Salomon and Others (Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland & Co., 1987).

The American Revolution: Haym Salomon
That is a touching story. Really, I mean it. It would've been an honor to make his acquaintence.

Unfortunately, it's apples and oranges. Republican imposters are forcing American taxpayers to fund their experiments. It would be nice to see private investment aiding Israel, but of course the looney leftists wouldn't hear of it.
 
Old 08-16-2008, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,211,852 times
Reputation: 6553
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
That is a touching story. Really, I mean it. It would've been an honor to make his acquaintence.

Unfortunately, it's apples and oranges. Republican imposters are forcing American taxpayers to fund their experiments. It would be nice to see private investment aiding Israel, but of course the looney leftists wouldn't hear of it.
This isn't a republican only club. This has been going on for a long time and under many admins. For whatever reason they all seem to be of the same mind. That we owe Israel what ever they ask for.
I am still waiting to see a post explaining why Israel is an important country, or at least more important than any other ally.
 
Old 08-17-2008, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Fondren SW Yo
2,783 posts, read 6,673,908 times
Reputation: 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
This isn't a republican only club. This has been going on for a long time and under many admins. For whatever reason they all seem to be of the same mind. That we owe Israel what ever they ask for.
I am still waiting to see a post explaining why Israel is an important country, or at least more important than any other ally.
Well, one simply needs ot look no further than the sale of AWACS planes to Saudi Arabia during the Reagan years or the loan guarantees under GHWB, both of which Israel did not get its way on to disprove the notion that Israel gets whatever it wants.

As far as why it is an important country, I think others have already given plenty of items on that topic. Medical and technological innovations, security and military technique and hardware innovations. Not to mention that it is a true democracy in an area where very few exist.

I don't think anyone has made the claim that Israel is more important than any other ally. I'm not sure the number of dollars given in foreign aid is an accurate measure it stick, if it were Egypt would be our #2 best friend and that is not likely. What is a factor in the US-Israel relationship is a shared value system, a link between a prediminantly Christian country and a Jewish country that saw its land as the birthplace of Christianity and a perception by most Americans (this is backedup by polling data) that Americans see Israel as a "mini-America." By that I mean they see a nation of people gathered in from countries across the globe who have come together to build a country of their own.
 
Old 08-19-2008, 03:31 PM
 
2,079 posts, read 4,950,086 times
Reputation: 1895
I do not have a problem with the Jews as a people, but as a nation, I personally believe that the world would be a much better and peaceful place if the State of Israel never came into existance.
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