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All of these philosopical arguments, moral arguments and political arguments have little to nothing to do with China's rise in the 21st century. Regardless of who has the most upstanding government and idealistic values or most ecologically friendly society, the simple fact is the Golden Rule is supreme.
He with the gold rules.
End of debate, no second chances, no judge to set things the way we want them to be.
The simple fact is wealth is grown by manufacturing. Wealth is accumulated by saving and wealth is transferred by service.
The US has become a service economy and can only garner wealth by transferring it from others who generate it via their manufacturing industry. Unless the US saves that wealth it will just be passed on to the next link in the service chain and ultimately will return to the manufacturing countries to distribute throught the system yet again.
The British Empire rose on the back of manufacturing as did the US. Likewise the Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Imperial Chinese, Japanese and German powers. As their production efficencies were eclisped by other rising technologies or declining infrastructures they fell out of power, just as Britian did and now the US is doing.
China is in a special place right now in that they have low labor costs, motivated governmental direction, a fresh palate for infrastructure and the cash to kick it all off. Sure they have problems. They don't have enough skilled labor or cash to do everything at once and have to make compromises in their schedules. They have a pride thing and try to put too much emphasis on appearance over sustance. That will change over time a they build their infractructure to the point that it is the most efficient on the planet at a given point in time and allows them to produce the highest quality product at the lowest cost possible amongst all their competition.
Once China hits critical mass in the mix of infrastructure, trained workforce and technology, they will also direct resources toward the niceties of ecology and social welfare. Historically they could not afford these at a national level, so they did without. So did Britian, the US, and most other nations.
Air pollution, lead and heavy metal pollution, water pollution, poor sanitary systems....none of these are unique to China. All of these were problems also faced or currently being faced by the US and all other 1st world countries. China will address them as well. Complain to me that they are not when we have cleaned up Los Angeles, New Jersey, Detroit, etc. When the air is pure over Mexico City, then we will be able to hold China in contempt for having dirty air. True they may be on the increasing side of the equation while we are already on the declining side, but that comes with time and development. China is just now coming into that part of the equation too.
I have no desire to see the US decline or China ascend. I would much prefer the US to get it's act together and work and sacrifice now to compete with China on an even footing. I hold no illusion that we will, however, as we have little recognition of our peril yet and even less acceptance of the need for us to rediscover ourselves.
I see China as the next world empire, economically and in terms of leadership. They may be a despised and hated leader for various reasons, but they will still hold the gold and make the rules.
"China is the dominant player. The country is on track to add 562 coal-fired plants - nearly half the world total of plants expected to come online in the next eight years."
this is quite funny, the more coal power plants they add, the more coal they need to purchase. Now, which country holds the greatest majority of the worlds supply of coal? well you guessed it, it is US
this is quite funny, the more coal power plants they add, the more coal they need to purchase. Now, which country holds the greatest majority of the worlds supply of coal? well you guessed it, it is US
The point was it's not sustainable. The faster we head towards independence....the more that price increases.
The point was it's not sustainable. The faster we head towards independence....the more that price increases.
I know its not sustainable, that is why I pointed out that they would be needing us to support there continued growth. We would have the marionette strings on the growth they have, sorta like opec has the marionette strings on the world at the moment. I had read a news story a few weeks ago that was talking about the shortage of coal that the chineese government has at the moment, and they are having to shut down power plants for days at a time while they wait for shipments of coal from us.
I see China as the next world empire, economically and in terms of leadership. They may be a despised and hated leader for various reasons, but they will still hold the gold and make the rules.
They're only despised and hated in the US. The rest of the world, especially the 3rd world, loves them.
They deal fairly in trade with other countries, the US does not.
They offer generous profit sharing, the US offers only a paltry 8% to 12% in royalties, then does everything in its power to avoid paying that.
They do not interfere politically or economically, the US attaches numerous political and economic strings (like the Washington Consensus).
They allow Chinese companies to be taxed, the US murders heads-of-state or overthrows governments, or makes threats to countries that try to tax US corporations.
They spend $Billions in infrastructure investment in the countries they trade with, the US invests nothing, and insists countries borrow from the World Bank/IMF.
There's no way the US can match Chinese investments dollar-for-dollar in Africa and South America, and for that reason, the Chinese will gain control of Africa and South America. They already control most of sub-Saharan Africa and part of South America. Note that the US response was not investment, rather it was the creation of AFRICOM (a military command).
They're only despised and hated in the US. The rest of the world, especially the 3rd world, loves them.
They are not quite in charge yet. The whole world loves to hate anyone in charge. Give it some time and even their most loyal supporters will be muttering behind their back.
On paper China's growth is amazing, but on closer inspection there is much to be desired. Most of China's economic growth is concentrated in its major cities and rural areas and small towns are still extremely poor. I should also point out the the average Chinese earns about a third of the average Mexican. Doesn't sound so impressive when you put it that way...
China's growing amount of engineering and industrial projects seems impressive, but when you consider the poor quality of many them, its not so great. Look at the amount of building collapses, cracking bridges, dangerous products, and under-performing factories. Have you ever seen how well Chinese cars stand up in crash testing? Let's put it this way, you'd rather be driving one of those old Pintos that used to have an exploding fuel tank than the latest Chinese car.
The Chinese economy is primarily dependent on manufacturing cheap goods for export. Sure there are some computers and other high-tech goods made in China, but most Chinese products are cheap crap that can easily be outsourced to India or Indonesia or Latin America or whoever else should China become unfriendly.
The Chinese economy and political system is extremely corrupt. It's known for its scapegoating, bribery, and favoritism. If it wasn't for the West's hunger for a lot of cheap crap, China would be a lot poorer and a lot more visibly dysfunctional than we see know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma
this is quite funny, the more coal power plants they add, the more coal they need to purchase. Now, which country holds the greatest majority of the worlds supply of coal? well you guessed it, it is US
Last time I checked it was Russia and the US with the highest coal reserves. Maybe the US might have higher amount of higher grade coal, but last time I looked, China was at least 4th or 5th in coal reserves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
They allow Chinese companies to be taxed, the US murders heads-of-state or overthrows governments, or makes threats to countries that try to tax US corporations.
That has NEVER happened and you are a liar for claiming so.
All of these philosopical arguments, moral arguments and political arguments have little to nothing to do with China's rise in the 21st century. Regardless of who has the most upstanding government and idealistic values or most ecologically friendly society, the simple fact is the Golden Rule is supreme.
He with the gold rules.
End of debate, no second chances, no judge to set things the way we want them to be.
The simple fact is wealth is grown by manufacturing. Wealth is accumulated by saving and wealth is transferred by service.
The US has become a service economy and can only garner wealth by transferring it from others who generate it via their manufacturing industry. Unless the US saves that wealth it will just be passed on to the next link in the service chain and ultimately will return to the manufacturing countries to distribute throught the system yet again.
The British Empire rose on the back of manufacturing as did the US. Likewise the Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Imperial Chinese, Japanese and German powers. As their production efficencies were eclisped by other rising technologies or declining infrastructures they fell out of power, just as Britian did and now the US is doing.
China is in a special place right now in that they have low labor costs, motivated governmental direction, a fresh palate for infrastructure and the cash to kick it all off. Sure they have problems. They don't have enough skilled labor or cash to do everything at once and have to make compromises in their schedules. They have a pride thing and try to put too much emphasis on appearance over sustance. That will change over time a they build their infractructure to the point that it is the most efficient on the planet at a given point in time and allows them to produce the highest quality product at the lowest cost possible amongst all their competition.
Once China hits critical mass in the mix of infrastructure, trained workforce and technology, they will also direct resources toward the niceties of ecology and social welfare. Historically they could not afford these at a national level, so they did without. So did Britian, the US, and most other nations.
Air pollution, lead and heavy metal pollution, water pollution, poor sanitary systems....none of these are unique to China. All of these were problems also faced or currently being faced by the US and all other 1st world countries. China will address them as well. Complain to me that they are not when we have cleaned up Los Angeles, New Jersey, Detroit, etc. When the air is pure over Mexico City, then we will be able to hold China in contempt for having dirty air. True they may be on the increasing side of the equation while we are already on the declining side, but that comes with time and development. China is just now coming into that part of the equation too.
I have no desire to see the US decline or China ascend. I would much prefer the US to get it's act together and work and sacrifice now to compete with China on an even footing. I hold no illusion that we will, however, as we have little recognition of our peril yet and even less acceptance of the need for us to rediscover ourselves.
I see China as the next world empire, economically and in terms of leadership. They may be a despised and hated leader for various reasons, but they will still hold the gold and make the rules.
Vote in more trustworthy politicians who follow through with what they say they will do, CUT SPENDING!!!!!, control population growth, more conservative supreme court justices, swift + harsh punishment for serious crimes, less meddling in other countries affairs (focus on the issues facing the U.S. because, well, we have plenty to deal with), immediate action taken regarding our energy crisis (build nuclear power plants, more coal, drill for oil in Alaska, more solar power?, ethanol from sugar cane), less politically correct dialogue + more straightforward answers from politicians, less b.s. coursework in high school and an empahasis on the basics (reading, writing, math, acience, GEOGRAPHY, U.S. History), affordable market-driven health insurance. Not the socailized crap that Hilary/Obama try to ram down our throats.
This sums of my feelings as well. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it, but it is what it is (or will be..).
I agree, one would have to very naive not to see China is rapidly becoming the new super power in this world. One must really be super naive not to see that the USA has let itself go, so to speak. Perhaps thats the way societies come and go in this world of ours. The USA has been up there for decade upon decade and yet has just basically gone into some sort of mental depression. Almost like it doesn't care about much of anything, its own people, its place in the world, or how the world perceives its behaviors. China is going to be a counry to reckon with in this world.
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