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They SEEK a state endorsement of their religion. Another example of how they Hate America.
No. They thought an overtly Christian nativity scene was a religious display. Santa got into the act because the government in question tried to hide behind a holiday theme by rushing out to WalMart to get other seasonal decorations. They came back with one giant inflatable Santa, one giant inflatable snowman, and a wooden sled, all of which they put next to the nativity scene. Big shock that the court didn't fall for that.
Um, mate basically I was agreeing with you.
Regarding the Santa issue, I wasn't aware of the details of the case - didn't know that was the 'strategy' if you could call it that, the gobment had taken. I'm guessing the Santa minus the nativity scene might be okay?
I don't understand why people feel the need to display their religious symbols on public property, when they can do so on their own property with no problem.
BTW, I personally wouldn't mind at all, as I love all of the festivities, decorations and lights, but I understand the thinking behind the strictures.
I do not approve of and do not promote of NAMBLA’s ideas or ideals I do not recommend their speech be suppressed. Many people on this board do not approve of my economic or political ideas but I do not think any of them propose that I should be suppressed. Free speech allows and sometimes encourages people to speak their mind no matter how obnoxious or depraved. Being offended is one of the prices of freedom.
Being subjected to messages promoting pedophilia goes beyond the bounds of being offended. Supporting the rights of an organization like NAMBLA to proselytize under the guise of free speech objectively constitutes support for such an organzation and such proselytizing.
No one is arguing for the suppression of free speech when that speech remains within the bounds of what is legally permissible (the last time I checked, having sex with children was a crime). Having made that clear, I would like to emphasize that it is the moral right, and more to the point, the responsibility of those who disagree with offensive and vulgar points of view to vigorously oppose and criticize such offensive vulgarians without interference either from you or from the ACLU, which in its vigorous defense of the rights of monsters and perverts to purvey their filth, and the lengths to which it goes to silence criticism of them, at times becomes, in effect, one with them.
Do you see exceptions in the Free Speech clause that are meant to apply to these groups?
The state may not use its agency to promote the interests of any particular religion, or of religion over non-religion. Religion in this country is an entirely individual matter. The state is to play no role. How much simpler could this be?
Want to cite a case?
You seem to feel that your best interests will be served by trashing the Constitution of the United States. It is indeed safe to assume that the ACLU will not serve such interests at all...
Apparently not that simple, since you have no idea what your talking about. This is what the establishment clause actually says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...."
Why secular fundamentalist neolibs always ignore the "make no law" part is beyond me. Until an actual law is passed endorsing a particular religion, you, the ACLU and your ilk have no case. The term "separation of church and state" is found nowhere in the constitution, yet it's repeated so often that it's become a fact. Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.
On a side note, I cant fathom what it feels like to wake up every morning consumed with utter hatred and contempt for anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%.
Fair enough GregW and I agree. However, I think there are people who feel organizations like the ACLU concentrate on helping out low-lives like NAMBLA, KKK instead of utilizing their resources for something else. I don't mind the ACLU being an organization that is like a watchdog over entities. We need this. It just seems that they are becoming more and more political and siding with the uber-left.
People thought they were siding with the uber-right when they defended free speech of the American Nazi Party. Actually they are just in favor of free speech (and a few other constitutional rights).
Being subjected to messages promoting pedophilia goes beyond the bounds of being offended. Supporting the rights of an organization like NAMBLA to proselytize under the guise of free speech objectively constitutes support for such an organzation and such proselytizing.
No one is arguing for the suppression of free speech when that speech remains within the bounds of what is legally permissible (the last time I checked, having sex with children was a crime). Having made that clear, I would like to emphasize that it is the moral right, and more to the point, the responsibility of those who disagree with offensive and vulgar points of view to vigorously oppose and criticize such offensive vulgarians without interference either from you or from the ACLU, which in its vigorous defense of the rights of monsters and perverts to purvey their filth, and the lengths to which it goes to silence criticism of them, at times becomes, in effect, one with them.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luiso
There is a cell phone store in the area . The sign on the door saids " Try Jesus if it doesn't work out Satan will take you back".
I needed a new cell phone but due to that didn't go there . They have a right to put the sdign there . I have right not to buy from them.
I don't know why people must display their "faith" on their sleeve. Maybe just not use to Florida yet .
In big cities it is common for small stores to have "faith" things on display. Mostly Catholic and Muslim things. Never bothered me for a minute. As long as they are not trying to force it on me, they can hang up the 10 Comandments, the Virgin Mary, a cross, a crucifix or a Quran. If they serve me well, I am happy.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,763,471 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luiso
I agree. I don't tow the line for liberals nor conservatives. ACLU has done great thing's and thing's I don't agree with.
Feel no need to support them blindly .
I have disagreements with the ACLU in certain areas such as "prisoner rights" (my belief is, once convicted, you lose ALL rights). But I am a member because of their support of the First Amendment. Just as I am the NRA because of their support of the 2nd Amendment.
And if said speech incites people to commit violence?
Those who commit the violence will be arrested, tried, convicted, and rightfully imprisoned for a term established by law. The abridgement of people's Constitutional rights is taken quite seriously. It tends to come with bonus time tacked on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroc5156
This makes me laugh at the leftwing liberal elite for actually thinking that a picture of Santa Claus is trying to promote religion as opposed to the holiday itself. God forbid (oooh, did I say the G-word? Sorry) something that is a symbol of happiness and joy is put out in public. Perhaps we can call it "art" and maybe then it will stick. Perhaps we can throw dog crap on it and get a government grant. I have never seen Christmas decorations utilized as a way to try and indoctrinate non-Christians into Christianity. It's just the uber-left taking itself way to seriously. But go ahead and defend symbols of hatred like a KKK hood in their right to march on public grounds. Take a poll of a group of taxpayers and I would bet they would rather see a picture of Santa on its grounds than the KKK.
There is nothing wrong with religion, religious holidays, or images related to either. Except when the government involves itself. The government has no role to play in religion, and would properly act in seeking to extricate itself, not insert itself, into such matters.
Free speech is a different matter. The right to express unpopular speech is that which most needs to be defended. The ACLU thankfully does that. You may meanwhile need to learn that Constitutional rights are not subject to majority rule. That you would even suggest a ballot on whether the KKK has a right to free speech shows that you do not understand the nature of the land that you live in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroc5156
Their views on gun control are enough. Perhaps if the ACLU concentrated on the reason why an officer fired their guns instead of the fact that a gun was fired? But, the ACLU needs to stick to its left-wing agenda.
No case to cite. Turns out you were just shooting your mouth off. Okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theroc5156
Once again, get over yourself. Holiday decorations don't trash the Constitution which states Freedom OF Religion. Hanging a decoration doesn't promote a religion, it celebrates a holiday. No different than hanging a Monet which I believe the ACLU wouldn't have a problem with. I guess the safest thing to do is just color the walls of public places one color that is neutral. I believe 1940's Germany did this as well.
The issue is state involvement. The government may not act in any way to endorse one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. It's a simple idea. It has been the basis of the rich diversity of religious thought that has flourished in this country. Get used to it.
you could be liberal and not support ACLU. ACLU is hard left, over the sun beyond the moon.
Only if the 1st Amendment is. And selected posters here seem to feel that to be the case.
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