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The results from those two communities would be very valid in proving that environment and affluence, not skin color, are a factor in test scores.
What we need to do is break things down by zip code. Then and only then will we see the true picture.
No, not really. Communities are more like to attract quality people than to produce them. Some would tend to attribut a cause and effect relationship to the community/group, when it is certain that the majority of the difference would be in attracting quality blacks, not producing them.
One must look deeply into things, instead of reflexively reacting.
To the original question, I think the gap will be bridged to a great degree but never completely. There will always be immigrants coming here from Latin America that don't speak any English and end up testing poorly and there will always be a certain backwards element in the African American population.
No, not really. Communities are more like to attract quality people than to produce them. Some would tend to attribut a cause and effect relationship to the community/group, when it is certain that the majority of the difference would be in attracting quality blacks, not producing them.
One must look deeply into things, instead of reflexively reacting.
Yep, there's that too.
However, I cheated a little with Cambria Heights. It's one of the blackest neighborhoods I've ever seen. What struck me first about it is it's freakishly clean, and everybody works.
My exposure to blacks growing up was negative. All I ever saw was ghetto folks. The first time I went to Cambria Heights in my early 20's I was actually happy. To see something like that was absolutely beautiful.
I've seen other areas like that since, but Cambria Heights sticks with me because it was the first real proof I ever had, that I could see with my own eyes, that blacks were no different than anyone else. That's about when I shed my racist upbringing, completely, and decided the other way. I stopped thinking about color, and started thinking about people instead.
Because when you grow up waiting on line behind black folks shuffling their food stamps, walking on the side of the road with their 10 kids on welfare, and see them standing outside the stores sucking down 40's, you tend to have a dim view. So I thank the entire community of Cambria Heights for changing my view early on.
However, I cheated a little with Cambria Heights. It's one of the blackest neighborhoods I've ever seen. What struck me first about it is it's freakishly clean, and everybody works.
My exposure to blacks growing up was negative. All I ever saw was ghetto folks. The first time I went to Cambria Heights in my early 20's I was actually happy. To see something like that was absolutely beautiful.
I've seen other areas like that since, but Cambria Heights sticks with me because it was the first real proof I ever had, that I could see with my own eyes, that blacks were no different than anyone else. That's about when I shed my racist upbringing, completely, and decided the other way. I stopped thinking about color, and started thinking about people instead.
Because when you grow up waiting on line behind black folks shuffling their food stamps, walking on the side of the road with their 10 kids on welfare, and see them standing outside the stores sucking down 40's, you tend to have a dim view. So I thank the entire community of Cambria Heights for changing my view early on.
I lived a pretty sheltered life (re: blacks) until Jr. HS. Prior to that I lived on Air Force bases and never saw any blacks other than AF personnel, and they all seemed to be first-class people, officer or enlisted.
However, that ended when I started JR. HS in a public, not "private" environment, and it was like being struck in the head with a frozen brick. The trashiness was manifest, and it seems like it is still the same, in most places. All the positive experiences I had before were swept away on a tidal-wave of trashiness.
Unfortunately people don't read between the lines in racial stats, or use their racial stats to compare like with like (poor Blacks vs middle class Blacks). Gaps lessen by socio-economic status, and lessen even more when culture is diluted (ex: second generation children of Asian immigrants not raising their own kids to work as hard, studying for hours on end after school with little fun like their parents did).
This is why I am against race-based stats. They don't do anything but hold up a perceived view of racism even in high income areas, but the ignored negative result is the stats say the people they are trying to help are somehow inferior since they are still behind even in high income areas. They really aren't inferior, and the differences are due to differences in parental choices and attitudes towards education.
If you understand the full scope of data as it relates to race and look at it from a historical perspective there is not a reason to be of the opinion "They don't do anything but hold up a perceived view of racism even in high income areas". The demographics of this country especially as they pertain to Black Americans and education attainment and economic progress are for the most part positive when you look at things from a historical perspective.
The problem is the most publicized stats as the pertain to race and non-White Americans is more often the not the most negative. You have people that totally ignore positive informaton about non-Whtie Americans or aren't even aware it exists.
The reality that many non-Black Americans tend to think the worst of Black Americans that has more to do with the fact they don't know many Black Americans, only see one sector of Black Americans who are may be poor or uneducated, or they have an inherent bias against Black Americans that is more based on perception than fact.
No, not really. Communities are more like to attract quality people than to produce them. Some would tend to attribut a cause and effect relationship to the community/group, when it is certain that the majority of the difference would be in attracting quality blacks, not producing them.
One must look deeply into things, instead of reflexively reacting.
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One must look deeply into things, instead of reflexively reacting.
You should REALLY follow your own advice.
Spring 2010: African Americans in Higher Education: Then and Now (http://www.thedefendersonline.com/2010/11/12/spring-2010-african-americans-in-higher-education-then-and-now/ - broken link)
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One of the most encouraging statistics is that in 1993, 11.5 percent of blacks ages 25 to 29 had obtained a four-year college degree. Now the figure is 19 percent.
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In 1993 there were 42,886 two-year associate’s degrees awarded to African Americans. The latest annual figure is 91,529.
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In 1993 blacks earned 65,338 bachelor’s degrees. The latest annual figure is 146,653. This is an increase of more than 124 percent.
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In 1993 blacks in the United States earned 16,136 master’s degrees. The latest figure is 62,574. This is nearly quadruple the figure from 17 years ago.
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In 1993, 951 African Americans earned doctorates at U.S. universities. In 2008, the latest year for which data is available, the number of black doctorates reached an all-time high of 2,030.
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In 1993 just over one quarter of all African Americans ages 18 to 24 were enrolled in college. Today the figure is 32 percent.
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In 1993 there were 93,000 African Americans enrolled in U.S. graduate schools. Today African-Americans graduate school enrollments are more than 230,000.
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In 2009 blacks made up 6.5 percent of all students enrolled in Advanced Placement courses in high school. These courses are equivalent to introductory courses at the college level. A decade ago blacks made up 3.8 percent of the students in these courses.
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In 1990 there were 1,197 blacks enrolled in master’s degree programs in nursing in the United States. They made up 5.7 percent of all students in master’s degree programs in nursing. By 2009 the number of blacks in these graduate nursing programs had increased more than sevenfold to 8,479. Blacks now make up 12.6 percent of all students in master’s degree programs in nursing.
I was talking to a school administrator who told me his goal is to eliminate the gap in test scores between Whites/Asians and Blacks/Hispanics. He said it can be done. In his opinion, we are about ten years away from a day when students of all races will have basically the same test scores.
In other words, Blacks and Hispanics will have the same scores on the SAT and SOL tests as Whites and Asians. Was he just being a politically correct dreamer, or will this really happen as soon as ten years from now?
Maybe in the second half of this century... I guess some regions will reach that goal faster than others, given it really is a goal in the first place.
If you understand the full scope of data as it relates to race and look at it from a historical perspective there is not a reason to be of the opinion "They don't do anything but hold up a perceived view of racism even in high income areas". The demographics of this country especially as they pertain to Black Americans and education attainment and economic progress are for the most part positive when you look at things from a historical perspective.
The problem is the most publicized stats as the pertain to race and non-White Americans is more often the not the most negative. You have people that totally ignore positive informaton about non-Whtie Americans or aren't even aware it exists.
The reality that many non-Black Americans tend to think the worst of Black Americans that has more to do with the fact they don't know many Black Americans, only see one sector of Black Americans who are may be poor or uneducated, or they have an inherent bias against Black Americans that is more based on perception than fact.
Good afternoon,
I agree with the historical perspective, this is absolutely true. What I don't like is the constant comparisons of current stats: Black poverty vs white poverty, Black test scores vs white test scores. It's ridiculous, and helps the case of those who try to paint blacks with a broad brush.
My child's test scores in a suburban school has no real correlation to a poor Black child who has bad parents and low test scores. They share nothing more than skin color and the fact that their ancestors were discriminated against. If anything, that poor Black child has more in common with the non-Black children doing poorly, especially if the existence of stats are to obtain solutions. How do we try to tell these kids skin color doesn't matter, yet take stats along those lines? It's hypocritical.
I still argue that stats based on race is inherently "racist". It's like saying, "let's gather stats based on hair color simply because until 40 years ago everyone discriminated against blondes". Sounds silly, doesn't it? The folks who think we're all equal now, and the equality advocates should "get" that by now.
I agree with the historical perspective, this is absolutely true. What I don't like is the constant comparisons of current stats: Black poverty vs white poverty, Black test scores vs white test scores. It's ridiculous, and helps the case of those who try to paint blacks with a broad brush.
My child's test scores in a suburban school has no real correlation to a poor Black child who has bad parents and low test scores. They share nothing more than skin color and the fact that their ancestors were discriminated against. If anything, that poor Black child has more in common with the non-Black children doing poorly, especially if the existence of stats are to obtain solutions. How do we try to tell these kids skin color doesn't matter, yet take stats along those lines? It's hypocritical.
I still argue that stats based on race is inherently "racist". It's like saying, "let's gather stats based on hair color simply because until 40 years ago everyone discriminated against blondes". Sounds silly, doesn't it? The folks who think we're all equal now, and the equality advocates should "get" that by now.
There is nothing you can do about people who are biased against Black Americans. They are going to use everything they can to place Black Americans in a negative light.
The reality is race is a social construct in this country and to varying degrees amongst individuals it affects their perspective on themselves and how they view society. I don't think we should hide from statistics simply because they can be used to paint some groups in a negative light. We can in fact learn from them.
There is nothing you can do about people who are biased against Black Americans. They are going to use everything they can to place Black Americans in a negative light.
The reality is race is a social construct in this country and to varying degrees amongst individuals it affects their perspective on themselves and how they view society. I don't think we should hide from statistics simply because they can be used to paint some groups in a negative light. We can in fact learn from them.
Good afternoon,
To clarify, racists using the stats to support their bias wasn't my major point. I agree with your analysis in that category. My major point is the gathering of race-based statistics is "racist".
Also, these stats are ineffective in solving problems with test scores, since two kids of different socio-economic backgrounds have nothing in common in except skin color and a history of discrimination if they are Black. If they are non-Black, the differences are even wider.
Regardless, your points are well taken.
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