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Okay, lets get some clarity here. For 1 thing, I'm not religious. For another thing, I'm not a right-winger and voted Dem in the past 2 elections. For yet another thing, I have a really good friend who is gay and he has told me repeatedly that he is totally against the idea of gay marraige because he thinks it goes completely against gay culture and is really mad that they're pushing this so hard. All I'm saying is that we have to respect that people find marriage to be a holy contract under God (this is not just christians folks, this is Jews and Muslims as well) and we must respect that. Why is it so hard to call it a Civil Union? Gimme a break, we're arguing over semantics, but as I said marriage is a loaded word and the gay community would be better served by trying to get civil unions recognized and stop calling it marraige.
First, did you read the "PS" in my post?? I said that it wasn't all directed at you specifically, and to not take it personally. Second, I didn't say a single thing about your being right-wing, or even anything about conservatives in general - re-read my post, and you'll see I never mentioned political leanings. Anyway, it might be an issue of "semantics", but to some people that word means a lot... just as it means so much to the religious folks, it means something to those who aren't allowed to use it. I personally can't speak for them, but I know many who feel this is a big deal. I also know gay people who do not support it, so don't think I'm assuming they're all on the same side! But even if some of them are against it, that's still not a valid argument to keep it from being legal... plenty of women didn't support women's rights, so should we have listened to them?
This issue baffles me, two adult people get married so what? Someone please tell me why they can not, because they are the same sex? We let convicted serial killers get married, sex offenders get married, bank robbers get married pedophiles get married. We even turn a blind eye on polygamy and child bride arranged marriages and we do not let gay people marry, because of some convoluted passage in the bible? Get a life,what harm has been done because two gay people are married?
No, I do not nor would I ever censor gay marriage and my family wouldn't have one bit of a problem having gay married people in the neighborhood.
With all the things that are going on in this country we have to worry over gay marriage, get a life.
All I'm saying is that we have to respect that people find marriage to be a holy contract under God (this is not just christians folks, this is Jews and Muslims as well) and we must respect that.
What about straight people who did not have a religious ceremony? I’ve been married for over 10 years. I didn’t get married in a church, it was a justice of the peace who performed the ceremony. We had a big ceremony, there was no prayers or “holy union” and I consider myself married. For they people who feel it is a holy contract, then fine, let them feel that way for their own marriage. Mine wasn’t a “holy contract” and it is a marriage. My non-holy contract marriage doesn’t affect some religious person holy contract marriage. No gay couples marriage will affect my marriage either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle
Why is it so hard to call it a Civil Union? Gimme a break, we're arguing over semantics, but as I said marriage is a loaded word and the gay community would be better served by trying to get civil unions recognized and stop calling it marraige.
This is a another problem area. Let’s say gay people all agree to call it a civil union. The proble is the people opposed to gay marriage will say “it’s a marriage!”. Gay couples want the same rights and priveliges as straight couples. If they have those under a civil union, it won’t stop the opposition because they’ll see it as a marriage under a different name. It’s a lose/lose situation. So call it a marriage.
Gizmo, I agree with you 100%! I am a Christian, accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior in 1980, and I disagree with the Gov't. banning their rights! You heard me...it's not the gov't.s business quite frankly, it's God's. And God said "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he". My son, also a Christian, is a "gay" if you could call him that, but I think the more accurate term is "transgendered". He believes he was born a freak of nature because he feels female in every sense of the word but his body. Quite frankly, he became angry with God for a while, believing...as he had been brought up in the church...that he was condemned forever...but such is not so, for God makes no mistakes. And as for the ignorant one who said it is a choice, you couldn't be more wrong. Who in their right mind would choose the condemnation that people like you put on them? Even the scientists know there is a difference, so why don't you use your p.c. and do some real research on the matter instead of talking out of ignorance. My son tried to take his life on two separate occasions due to this whole issue. He said he would never have a family, never be normal, and his whole family's hearts broke over his pain. He was 13 when he told me. He was tortured in school as if he was a worm and nothing more. He is now 24 and has found peace. He lives in Fort Collins and spends his time volunteering for S.A.V.A which is a non-profit organization of victim advocates for sexual assault and abuse. He takes no money for what he does. He also designs all their programs for plays they put on to help get the word out concerning such issues. You know, he plays such a viable role in positive human experiences that I believe he is entitled to live in peace with whomever he chooses. Contrary to what some people believe about gays, they want all the same things in a relationship that anyone else does....love. How in the world does who he is have even one iota of affect upon anyone else? As a Christian I know God loves him, and whatever went askew in his body is God's business...but you could see it in him long before he was even 5 years old and knew what sexuality even was. He is the most loving caring human being I ever had the privelege to meet and know, and am so glad God trusted him into my care, and He had His reasons for doing so. He asks us to love and not judge. I look around and am ashamed and appalled at the atrocities committed all over the world in the name of religion....notice I didn't say in the name of God? The worst of mankind seems to be wrapped up in so-called way-laid Christians. Study your Bible, learn the heart of God, and you would not speak as you do. When I get to Heaven the good Lord will answer the question of my son for me, and I won't know it until I get there. I don't have to know. What is your problem? Scared you will catch it? Scared you may have to touch one? Ha. I pity you what you are missing. For the most part they are more sensitive and loving and INTELLIGENT and creative than most people...they have many, many gifts to give society. You on the other hand, need to learn how to spell.
I know I came across tough love style and "no mercy" for those who are in opposition to any type "union" under any name they want to call it...but if anyone had walked in my shoes for even one year of this whole issue of helping my son to live again, they would understand my adamant behavior. The pain was akin to something horrible to me. Will i awaken to find him alive or dead in the morning? This didn't come from his own heart, it came from the mirror reflection of some narrow minded people. I have made it my mission in life to educate if you will, people to the heart ache of these people...in a lot of cases they are tossed out of families, and society. When I think of the harm done by drug and alcohol addicted "married" heterosexuals I cringe for their babies, or the men who assault their daughters, or beat their wives...don't we have more important issues to address other than whether two people have the right to get and give love and have all the legal rights of any other human? Remember the holocaust? People thought they would never be involved in such a horrible thing, but they were. History can repeat itself when people try to decide who can and who can't have rights, know what I mean?
As far as voting on same sex marriage...it's a minority of the population that is asking for the right to marry. In a situation like this one, the majority is almost always going to have the upper hand...but that doesn't mean the minority isn't deserving of that right. It should be handled by each state just as marriage already is...but it will probably have to be through federally mandated legislation, not through a general vote.
Your outlook towards your child is awesome, and I wish more "Christians" had your perspective on the Bible and the religion they profess to follow. For a religion that supposedly preaches love and tolerance, so many of the people who claim to practice it aren't interested in anything except beating "different" people over the heads with their Bibles.
One thing that probably should be clarified for the audience, though, is that gay and transgender are not the same thing. One (gay) refers to someone's sexual orientation, and the other refers to one's gender identity; i.e. one's sense of being male, female, both, or neither. Being transgender doesn't necessarily mean that one is gay.
Last edited by Yac; 02-06-2007 at 10:23 AM..
Reason: Quote shortened.
This issue baffles me, two adult people get married so what? Someone please tell me why they can not, because they are the same sex? We let convicted serial killers get married, sex offenders get married, bank robbers get married pedophiles get married. We even turn a blind eye on polygamy and child bride arranged marriages and we do not let gay people marry, because of some convoluted passage in the bible? Get a life,what harm has been done because two gay people are married?
No, I do not nor would I ever censor gay marriage and my family wouldn't have one bit of a problem having gay married people in the neighborhood.
With all the things that are going on in this country we have to worry over gay marriage, get a life.
I agree. People like Karl Rove made it THE agenda; it's a diversion.
sunny
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Second, I didn't say a single thing about your being right-wing, or even anything about conservatives in general - re-read my post, and you'll see I never mentioned political leanings. Anyway, it might be an issue of "semantics", but to some people that word means a lot... just as it means so much to the religious folks, it means something to those who aren't allowed to use it. I personally can't speak for them, but I know many who feel this is a big deal. I also know gay people who do not support it, so don't think I'm assuming they're all on the same side! But even if some of them are against it, that's still not a valid argument to keep it from being legal... plenty of women didn't support women's rights, so should we have listened to them?
Gay marriage
Thank you for reminding me of the true nature of Christianity,
so true!
