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I was researching "the other" in film and I came across a book that went into great detail of Arab characters. I made a copy of some information but at the time it wasn't "the other" I was researching. I tried to run a search and found there are several books and some articles that also take note of it. At any rate, there have been a lot of depictions of the Arab evil doer prior to 1968.
I bet if I really wanted to research it, I would find the bigotry in a vast amount of literature that dates from the way back and the get go that serves no purpose but to justify conquering. Unfortunately, it would then prove that people suck. Again.
I was researching "the other" in film and I came across a book that went into great detail of Arab characters. I made a copy of some information but at the time it wasn't "the other" I was researching. I tried to run a search and found there are several books and some articles that also take note of it. At any rate, there have been a lot of depictions of the Arab evil doer prior to 1968.
I bet if I really wanted to research it, I would find the bigotry in a vast amount of literature that dates from the way back and the get go that serves no purpose but to justify conquering. Unfortunately, it would then prove that people suck. Again.
Your post opens up an intersting subject. America HAS had an odd 'love-hate' relationship with "Arabs" or "Muslims" for decades...MOST of it based on sheer 'baloney', and much of it coming pretty close to 'bigotry' by today's standards. I BELIEVE it has to do with long-ago resentment of the "Barbary Pirates" who captured American ships and sold their crews into slavery or held them for ransom, in the very earliest days of our Republic. (The "Barbary Coast" roughly coincides with today's Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya). That was probably America's first taste of 'humiliation' at the hands of brutal 'foreigners', and I suppose left a lingering bad taste in our mouths.
We went through a period of fascination with "Egypt" and all things related..back in the 20's or so....and you'll recall that very EARLY film 'hunk' Rudolph Valentino played a rather threatening, scowling desert 'shiek', always on the prowl across the endless sands, seeking vengeance as well as 'lush, willing Western women' (he was a secret 'passion' for female film-goers in those days, and no doubt annoyed their male companions). He was a vaguely "Arab-like" guy, but not sure if he was specifically pointed out as such.
Even the Three Stooges, way back in the 1930's, made quite a string of silly "Arabic"-themed adventure comics, constantly pursued by angry, murderous sheiks, who spewed blood-curdling desert curses upon the three hapless 'infidels', threatening them with 'a thousand deaths'. Lots of mummies, pyramids, and bloodthirsty characters...("Hurry..we gotta make it to Cairo before the Shiek does !...."Cairo? I had an UNCLE in Cairo!..He was a CAIRO-practor!"..(slap) ...''Ahhhh, Shut up and RIDE"..) ..LOTS of mockery of Arabic names and culture (I recall the "Tomb of King Rutan-Tutan", and the murderous shiek "Hassan bin Sober")...
All of this, no doubt, gave rise to MUCH inaccurate stereotyping. Even "Max Klinger", the cross-dressing Arabic-American from Toledo who was such a part of TV's "M*A*S*H" sitcom, often lapsed into his "Son of The Desert" mode, as he railed against military life and longed for home. Jamie Farr (the actor) was Arabic, yet saw this as 'good natured fun', I suppose. I agree with him. But some might say such nonsense COULD give rise to negative stereotypes...
Your post opens up an intersting subject. America HAS had an odd 'love-hate' relationship with "Arabs" or "Muslims" for decades...MOST of it based on sheer 'baloney', and much of it coming pretty close to 'bigotry' by today's standards. I BELIEVE it has to do with long-ago resentment of the "Barbary Pirate"
I wanted to think over the impact of Barbary Coast. I do agree that it impacted the US but, I do not believe that it reinvented the wheel. I think that it had the capacity to be useful for a great deal of propaganda.
One of the questions that I asked myself was if it was possible to be impacted, here, by centuries of bigotry. I think yes and starting from the time period that the Persians invaded Greece. Each new episode is going to layer this till it is almost an ingrained. Including the Turk Ottoman's and the Crusades, the whole schpiel.
The Renaissance period is going to see much "forgotten" brought back again translated from Greek and Arabic languages. This was not too distant timewise. This is a republic and that was a Greek thing. At least Madison studied everything available that had anything to do with any government. We know that information would have been available. Too, there was no real sense of separate identity because we did not fight as Americans but as British subjects. That history is our history.
Would that have filtered down to the lower classes? Yes. Diluted and even deluded. In the same way that it does now. Over time there is going to be novels and erotica that are built upon those stereotypes.
I do agree with the innaccuracy, but MASH was a little different. That show was built on stereotypes. A doctor, a blonde, a preacher and a Lebanese guy walk into ......
I wanted to think over the impact of Barbary Coast. I do agree that it impacted the US but, I do not believe that it reinvented the wheel. I think that it had the capacity to be useful for a great deal of propaganda.
One of the questions that I asked myself was if it was possible to be impacted, here, by centuries of bigotry. I think yes and starting from the time period that the Persians invaded Greece. Each new episode is going to layer this till it is almost an ingrained. Including the Turk Ottoman's and the Crusades, the whole schpiel.
The Renaissance period is going to see much "forgotten" brought back again translated from Greek and Arabic languages. This was not too distant timewise. This is a republic and that was a Greek thing. At least Madison studied everything available that had anything to do with any government. We know that information would have been available. Too, there was no real sense of separate identity because we did not fight as Americans but as British subjects. That history is our history.
Would that have filtered down to the lower classes? Yes. Diluted and even deluded. In the same way that it does now. Over time there is going to be novels and erotica that are built upon those stereotypes.
I do agree with the innaccuracy, but MASH was a little different. That show was built on stereotypes. A doctor, a blonde, a preacher and a Lebanese guy walk into ......
I must say, this discussion must be commended for staying on topic, and being civilized. it is nice and refreshing to see people discussing something in a very logical and respectful way.
I wanted to think over the impact of Barbary Coast. I do agree that it impacted the US but, I do not believe that it reinvented the wheel. I think that it had the capacity to be useful for a great deal of propaganda.
One of the questions that I asked myself was if it was possible to be impacted, here, by centuries of bigotry. I think yes and starting from the time period that the Persians invaded Greece. Each new episode is going to layer this till it is almost an ingrained. Including the Turk Ottoman's and the Crusades, the whole schpiel.
The Renaissance period is going to see much "forgotten" brought back again translated from Greek and Arabic languages. This was not too distant timewise. This is a republic and that was a Greek thing. At least Madison studied everything available that had anything to do with any government. We know that information would have been available. Too, there was no real sense of separate identity because we did not fight as Americans but as British subjects. That history is our history.
Would that have filtered down to the lower classes? Yes. Diluted and even deluded. In the same way that it does now. Over time there is going to be novels and erotica that are built upon those stereotypes.
I do agree with the innaccuracy, but MASH was a little different. That show was built on stereotypes. A doctor, a blonde, a preacher and a Lebanese guy walk into ......
Interesting insights...thanks for the post..
Your final line, in 'joke' mode, reminded me of still another factor....and that's simply 'humor' itself. The whole subject of what's 'funny', and WHY, is FASCINATING....and we Americans have ALWAYS made great 'fun' of other cultures and accents...just about ALL of them. This was true up until recent strides in "Political Correctness" put much of this 'off limits'. But some things just are FUNNY, and it's hard to say exactly why...and in general "foreigners" have ALWAYS been funny..even generic, non-specific 'foreigners' (remember 'Latka', in "Taxi"?)
Is it possible that with no great practical exposure to "real" Arabic culture in American society, the stereotypical culture was just taken for granted to seem 'funny'? I recall that Late-night TV host Johnny Carson got HUGE laughs with a 'vaguely Middle Eastern' character ("Karnak", maybe ?). The "magnificent, all-seeing one" made a practice of providing answers to viewers questions BEFORE the questions were read...through sheer 'mental power'. It was totally SILLY...an enormous turban, a cushion on the floor, and SCATHING, fiery curses hurled at those who displeased him. The audience howled.
Would this be offensive today? I don't know...NOR do I know if Carson ever recieved any complaints about this 'character' from anyone. But a GOOD DEAL of the humor, it seems to me, was dependent on the fact that most of the audience was probably totally unfamiliar with TRUE middle-east culture, and this outrageous stereotyping was seen as 'hilarious'..
Any thoughts on this?..
Last edited by macmeal; 09-08-2008 at 06:39 PM..
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