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so where is this seperation of church and state all of you liberals support?
That has no bearing on taxes. So long as all religions are taxed at the same rate businesses are, there's no violation of the 1st Amendment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bright_future
so you want to take away Priests and religious clergy's , etc, free speech?
Taxing religions does not violate the clergy's protection to free speech.
Newspapers and magazines pay taxes (including property taxes) and it has not resulted in a loss of "free speech" so arguments claiming that taxing religions infringes "free speech" are absurd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02
Taxation would put small and rural churches out of operation.
No great loss there.
I think people should be able to sue churches as well. If clergy tell people to pray to god, and nothing happens, or people are told to make financial contributions to the church and their prayers aren't answered, I think they should be able to sue for fraudulent misrepresentation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
I think he's referring to Bill Maher, who's an athiest. From what I can see--ONE Obama supporter wants the tax exempt status ended for churches--and I'm not all that sure he's a strong Obama supporter. He's ripped into him on his show pretty strongly a couple of times.
I am not an Obama supporter, but I am ultra-conservative, so far to the right I make Westboro Baptist Church and its followers look like Obama, and I have no problem taxing religions.
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Originally Posted by Queens2QueenCity
That's right baby! Islam will be the new official religion of the new USA...United States of Arabia.Obama with his cousin Osama and resurrected brother Sadaam will make all the little children attend madrases and quote the Quran too.
Taxing religions does not violate the clergy's protection to free speech.
I know that. I was making my remark of what the other poster and others said. They all said something similar to "if they get involved in politics, we should tax them"
So they are saying that they should not have free speech currently b.c they don't have to pay taxes. I'm saying they should still have free speech.
Government is forbidden to tax rights it was instituted to secure.
The ever increasing tax load is based on rights being changed into government granted privileges.
When practicing a religion is a government endowed privilege, tax churches.
"Did the church ever need to seek permission from the government to be exempt from taxes? Were churches prior to 1954 taxable? No, churches have never been taxable. To be taxable a church would first need to be under the jurisdiction, and therefore under the taxing authority, of the government. The First Amendment clearly places the church outside the jurisdiction of the civil government: "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Religion cannot be free if you have to pay the government, through taxation, to exercise it."
"Did the church ever need to seek permission from the government to be exempt from taxes? Were churches prior to 1954 taxable? No, churches have never been taxable. To be taxable a church would first need to be under the jurisdiction, and therefore under the taxing authority, of the government. The First Amendment clearly places the church outside the jurisdiction of the civil government: "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Religion cannot be free if you have to pay the government, through taxation, to exercise it."
Unfortunately I have to disagree with my fellow dems posting. Many small, struggling churches would simply vanish if they were taxed. I think though that a (tax) line should be developed and drawn between those mega churches that are clearly out there to collect tons of money from their parishioners that all too often end up lining the pockets of their dubious founders. And I'm pretty sure I've heard Obama speak often and openly about the good works of church communities.
My church--a more liberal protestant denomination--runs a food bank, a child care center, and a number of other programs focusing on helping youth, the poor and the elderly. That's what Christian churches SHOULD do--focus on working together to live Christ like lives helping others. Our pastor and her partner shop for clothing for their family quite a bit of the time at Goodwill, and they personally donate a chunk of their income to charities focused in that area, or back to our church for that work. No one is driving a Mercedes--more like a 10 year old Toyota. It's not about converting people--it's the idea that people have to have their basic NEEDS met before they can even think about living spiritual lives. So that's what we do, following the path left to us by Christ.
The reason churches traditionally get tax exempt status is because no one profits from the money they take in--there is no "owner." If you force the churches really doing good work to pay taxes, they're not going to be able to continue to support the programs to feed, cloth and help the people who need it the most. We still have to pay heat bills for the building, modest salaries, and occasionally buy a new boiler or have snow removed from the parking lot. I have a problem with the mega churches who focus on the message that prosperous lives are gifted to us by God because of our faith in him. It's not a Christian message--essentially that people are poor because of their lack of faith. Those are the churches who tend to put nothing back into the community, but pay it all back to themselves in salaries, and in programs just for their own congregations.
And by the way--there has never been ONE WORD out of the Obama administration or the Democrats on taxing churches. This is another hoax/scare made up by radical conservatives to hit the fear center in their base hard. Shame on you.
The only thing that could be easier is if they put the inflatable church "buy here now" button at the bottom of the "become ordained here now" page.
Don't forget to apply with the IRS!
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