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Black slaves were tethered to their homes, often abused (depending on the owners), no freedrom; on the other hand, they had a roof over their heads, food to eat.
Native Americans were often exterminated in droves.
But I don't think a lot of people are aware of the sadistic abuse that the early Chinese had to suffer. Hell, in Pendleton, Oregon, they would shoot and kill a Chinese found outside after dark. They were not allowed to marry "white women" but the few Chinese women smuggled over were usually forced into prostitution under false pretenses. Small wonder they found comfort inside their opium dens!
The early Irish dealt with immense prejudice.
Every corner, nook, and cranny of the world has its own history just like it, and it STILL proceeds to happen in the world. I tend to agree with Reads2MUCH.
All true. so, why does man go on killing man? motives are robbery, incest, land grabbing, race, religious identity, plus many other illogical reasons, and sadly, will never end. man IS man's worst enemy. where is GOD when you need him/her most?
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Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH
And you fail to mention the white men exterminated by other white men. And the black men exterminated by other black men. ETC,ETC,ETC. All peoples throughout known history have warred amongst each other. What we are talking about is the invasion of the white man and the systematic slaughter of entire tribes of people numbering in the millions. Stop trying to cloud this issue when it arises with your 'Indians killed Indians' defense. Fighting amongst your own people is a historical norm. As genocide happens to be. And that is what happened here to the Native Americans.
Native americans were fighting for their homelands , that's the difference
As horrific as slavery was, the difference is that native north american nations were fighting for their homelands against a foreign invader. North america is a continent , continents are populated by many different nations, peoples who belong to totally unrelated linguistic groups and who have very different cultures. This would be comparable to greeks and swedes who are both european peoples who are unrelated but , they inhabit the same continent( europe) or chinese and asian indians( asia). North america had great ethnic diversity and a population of at least 100 million before european contact. Nations with national borders had already been established. Hundreds of thousands of acres were under cultivation. The iroquoian confederacy of 5 nations ( onendaga,seneca, mohawk , oneida and cayuga) was long established ... Complete with a constitution ( on which the us constitution was based). Montezuma could field an army of 300,000 .we were not all nomadic hunter gather peoples, although in the north that would have been the case ( and that is true on any continent).what put us at a disadvantage was our lack of immunity to small pox which killed 98% of the north american population. The nations were incredibly weakened by this plague which the first europeans unwittingly introduced . As a result most of the later immigrants encountered nations that were still reeling from this devistation and could no longer maintain infrastructure on the previous level. Of course they were quick to take advantage of the wounded and fabricate stories that north america was a vast uninhabited land populated by savages and not civilized nations. Nevertheless , the conquest still took over 400 years from 1492 until 1910 and the survivors were herded into internment camps that are called reservations , given numbers and put under the care of the department of the interior ( which oversees all natural resources). That's the real story in short of what happened in north america. It could have happened to your european ancestors if genghis khan would have invaded europe during the black plague.
I realize that this is going to come off as very arrogant and perhaps demeaning, but I honestly don't mean to. I think that slavery to the African Americans is the best thing that has ever happened to them (today, not back then). Would they be better off in their homeland, or here in America? Just look at the horrible situation going on in the majority of African countries today. It is simply barbaric how much of these nations treat their people. Genocide, mass rape, disease, poverty, starvation. Even in industrialized African nations, these problems exist.
In terms of who had it worse back then, I believe the Natives did. While I won't say the land belongs to anyone, they were here first and they had everything taken away from them by force. That would definitely break my spirit. Slaves had it pretty harsh too.
You know what though? If you talked to the ancestors of a lot of Americans, you will find out that whites had it just as bad in many European countries. Don't talk about slavery to a Polak, it is in their blood. Serfdom is the same concept as slavery.
It is in fact not only very arrogant, but stupid. You are suggesting that people should be forced against their will to move to another place. The forbears of African-Americans didn't ask to come. To be blunt,they didn't care. They were kidnapped and brought here. The only reason African-Americans have it better now is because they stood up and said they weren't going to take crap from anyone. If they were left in Africa, who knows? They may have been happier. Africa was messed up by colonialism. If Africa was left alone, maybe people might be a little happier.
Both Native Americans and African-Americans had it bad, in different ways. Native Americans were often moved off of their own land and displaced onto reservations,not unlike the black people of South Africa. The difference is at least Native Americans could leave the reservations if the chose to do so. Native Americans suffered genocide. Columbus started it. He started with the Arawaks on his exploration for gold in the Bahamas. He didn't find the gold and out of anger, many of the Arawak were murdered. African-Americans were kidnapped from their own land and placed onto another continent against their will. There was no interest to settle the continent of Africa in the earlier times. All people wanted were slaves. Black Africans were kidnapped or sold into slavery. The Africans who rebelled were killed. Many died on the ships from disease. Some jumped off of the ships in suicide. The ones who made it to the new world were subjected to slavery. They were brought to the USa for one reason and one reason only: slavery. The use of Native Americans as slaves went out of practice because many Native Americans rebelled or were being killed off through disease. In the end, many Native Americans were moved to other places for the benefit of the people using blacks as slaves. They both got a raw deal, just in different ways.
These "who was the most oppressed" debates really don't accomplish much. Does acknowleding which group has or had it worse improve anything for either group?
These "who was the most oppressed" debates really don't accomplish much. Does acknowleding which group has or had it worse improve anything for either group?
Both group's cirumstances are different in America because whites have had a particular relationship with each group. Whites needed Indian land and needed Black labor to work that land. So one big difference between both groups in relation to whites is that whites needed Black labor more than they've needed Indian labor. This has shaped the present circumstances of both groups.
Blacks were the ones who did all of the labor to build the wealth for early America, and didn't get anything for it. Slavery was not only a horrible thing, it was a sign of other horrors, such as greed and sloth. Why not do the work yourself or pay someone to do it?
It is in fact not only very arrogant, but stupid. You are suggesting that people should be forced against their will to move to another place. The forbears of African-Americans didn't ask to come. To be blunt,they didn't care. They were kidnapped and brought here. The only reason African-Americans have it better now is because they stood up and said they weren't going to take crap from anyone. If they were left in Africa, who knows? They may have been happier. Africa was messed up by colonialism. If Africa was left alone, maybe people might be a little happier.
Well, American Blacks have the highest standard of living of any black population on Earth, so you could in the long run (that is the key term here) it was a good thing. Obviously it was horrible for the generations of slaves and the immediate generation afterwards.
Also, there were several notable black communities in the US that were thriving before the end of Segregation. Bronzeville, East St. Louis, Harlem, much of Detroit, and so on had sizeable black middle-class communities. Most of those communities have seen better days at the time of this post, but the fact remains there was a time when East St. Louis was the thriving heart of the black community in Missouri and Harlem was the spawning ground for inventive music and housed the nation's first black millionaires. There are a number of reasons why these neighborhoods have since declined, but the fact remains that not all blacks were poor and timid until the late 1950s and implying that it was only until the Civil Rights movement that any blacks had attained a higher standard of living than many European nations is rather insulting.
I also doubt that "If Africa was left alone, maybe people might be a little happier". The Arabs were involved in the slave trade in eastern Africa for centuries (some European slave traders would deal with Arabs) and the African tribes had a long, long history of slaughtering and enslaving each other.
I am not condoning slavery or colonialism, just saying the idea that Africa would be less violent and poor is almost certainly a fantasy.
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Native americans were fighting for their homelands , that's the difference
