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[quote=eastcoastlady;5314931]I don't think anyone should practice any religion. It's like believing in fairy tales after all.
But I know many people feel strongly that religion is an important part of their lives so alright, I guess I can go along with it.
Just don't try to make it seem like one religion is any better than another, because they are all ridiculous. Christianity, Islam, Scientology- a bunch of hooey.
Quote:
But if people want to pray on their lunch breaks, I certainly couldn't care less.
Employees can do whatever they want on their lunch breaks, as long as it is within the standards set by their employer while on company property. But when that activity involves shutting down a production line to accommodate the activities of a particular religion, then it becomes an accommodation exclusive to that religion and to the exclusion of other religions or non-believers.
BTW, why are all these Muslims/Islamics working at this one particular meat packing plant? I am aware that these Somalian Muslims/Islamics were brought o this country by special visa, so is this one of those deals where the hand of government is scratching the back of this particular employer and vice-versa? This is not the first story concerning this meat packing plant and its accommodations of Muslim/Islamic employees, there have been several others in the past and this is beginning to show a pattern for the interests of Islam overriding the interests of other religions and non-believers. It would also appear that the union at this plant is certainty "in bed" (company union?) with management as they "rubber stamp" these exclusionary requests from their Muslim/Islamic members. This union is a definite sham.
Correct, the people who challenge me do it very intelligently-- they always trick me into trying to fulfill their challenges with their tricky clever ways, and I just don't know what to do about it man. As one challenge I've been arguing with myself all week about whether I should take the day off for Christmas this year, considering how unethical it would be to assume that my cultural heritage allows me to shirk my responsibilities in such an outrageous fashion. What an ethical dilemma!
Yo! Take off Christmas, take off Ramadan, take off Rosh Hasahanah, take off National Druid Day, take off the rest of your job, makes no matter to me!
Please note that the entire production line will be shut down for the "prayer lunch". If you knew anything about meat processing, you would know that there is shut down and start up protocols for food processing that requires cleaning and sanitizing of the processing equipment and a loss of product at the beginning and end of production, hence the necessity to run a production line continuously once it's started. So to keep the peace with the Muslims/Islamics, the company if forced to absorb the costs of stopping and re-staring the production line additional times during the shift. Another "kiss ass" situation for the company and the union!
Earth to "mommytotwo", millions of people work the weekend as part of their regular workweek, I did for many years! Smarten up!
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Originally Posted by Christian Arab
Have been outside on Sundays? do you see all the open shops, people working? I guess those people aren't Christians.
Hey look, some public schools in California will have separate prayer room to accommodate Muslims students. A room of which I, as a tax payer will fork the bill, so what? I mean, why stop there, let's forget about anything America, and lets accommodate everybody, so what?. Before we know it, Sharia laws will be in place, much like in Londonstan, so what?
DUH!
Of course there are people working on Sundays.
However, you cannot argue that people who want Sundays off for religious reasons have many, many more options when it comes to employment that does not conflict with their religious beliefs. A person that needs to pray at a certain time everyday will nearly always have to ask for accommodations. They can most times easily accommodate having sundays off, even in RETAIL.
Please notice that these people have JUST now gotten the schedule change, during Ramadan, which is a holy month for them. They were not granted this change for their ordinary prayers.
300 people out of 2500 stop the production line. Yes I see the logistical problem with that.
How about 150? does that stop the production line? That is only about 8%, and perhaps they could let 150 go at once. If the prayer time is at 4:00, let 150 have lunch from 3:40-4:10, and then let the next group go from 4:10-4:40 or something like that. I believe there are ways to work around it. They don't all have to go at once to get their prayer done on time.
The sad thing is that employers on longer want to do things for their employees, then the UNION has to step in and they get more out of the employer than necessary.
Notice they are arguing though about the sunset prayer. and for only the next 9 days. Lets not forget that the sunset prayer is the one where they get to pray and then EAT after a day of fasting.
However, you cannot argue that people who want Sundays off for religious reasons have many, many more options when it comes to employment that does not conflict with their religious beliefs. A person that needs to pray at a certain time everyday will nearly always have to ask for accommodations. They can most times easily accommodate having sundays off, even in RETAIL.
Please notice that these people have JUST now gotten the schedule change, during Ramadan, which is a holy month for them. They were not granted this change for their ordinary prayers.
300 people out of 2500 stop the production line. Yes I see the logistical problem with that.
How about 150? does that stop the production line? That is only about 8%, and perhaps they could let 150 go at once. If the prayer time is at 4:00, let 150 have lunch from 3:40-4:10, and then let the next group go from 4:10-4:40 or something like that. I believe there are ways to work around it. They don't all have to go at once to get their prayer done on time.
The sad thing is that employers on longer want to do things for their employees, then the UNION has to step in and they get more out of the employer than necessary.
Notice they are arguing though about the sunset prayer. and for only the next 9 days. Lets not forget that the sunset prayer is the one where they get to pray and then EAT after a day of fasting.
I am going to look into this further.[/quote]
While you're looking further into this matter, look around for your brain as it has apparently fallen out of your head! A meat processing plant is not one big production line, there are several production lines processing various types of product. There are most likely several production lines involved in this lunch time prayer shutdown, not just one production line. The UNION is a "Company union", they are there for the convenience of the employer and not the benefit of the employees! I've been a member of a "company union", the shop steward spent more time in the foreman's office than on the shop floor, it was a joke, the company got whatever they wanted! While you're checking out the situation, check out the relationship among the company, union and government, this has all the "earmarks" of a government supported mutual relationship.
Last edited by Steve Hazzard; 09-18-2008 at 08:27 AM..
Reason: Edit text.
So tell me, if the lunches are staggered during the normal hours, when no accommodations are made, how they are staggered? At any given time, what percentage of the workers are on a lunch break?
Apparently the "company union" didn't get the company what they wanted this time.
I wonder if the company offered any alternatives, like offering time off (unpaid) and giving other employees overtime. YES I know that will cost them more money in payroll, but may save them money compared to shutting down production altogether.
And on the "earmarks of a government supported mutual relationship", I'll let you go after that one. The company shouldn't be getting support from the government to hire Somali refugees, if that is what you are getting at.
So tell me, if the lunches are staggered during the normal hours, when no accommodations are made, how they are staggered? At any given time, what percentage of the workers are on a lunch break?
Apparently the "company union" didn't get the company what they wanted this time.
I wonder if the company offered any alternatives, like offering time off (unpaid) and giving other employees overtime. YES I know that will cost them more money in payroll, but may save them money compared to shutting down production altogether.
And on the "earmarks of a government supported mutual relationship", I'll let you go after that one. The company shouldn't be getting support from the government to hire Somali refugees, if that is what you are getting at.
Lunches are "staggered" by using "relief workers" during the time the normal production person is taking a lunch break. This is the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure" in any business that uses "continuous process production", as in the auto or glass industry. Because of the large number of Muslim/Islamic workers requesting lunch at the same lime to satisfy the prayer requirements of Ramadan, there are insufficient "relief workers" to keep the production line in operation, so the line must be shut down and then restarted. It is the same method that is used when a production worker needs to use the bathroom during the shift, that is where the term "relief worker" came into use when Henry Ford invented the continuous production line for the producing the Model-T car back in the early part of the 20th century.
In meat processing (or any other production line business), it's not a matter of time-off or overtime, it is a matter of having a sufficient number of production line workers to maintain continuous production. This is why I would like to see automation replace as many production line workers as possible, production line work is a mind numbing and a burn out type job that offers few rewards other than a paycheck and benefits. Many business have dumped the production line in favor of "work groups" where all members of the work group participate in all phases of the production of a product. The auto maker, Saab of Sweden, has used work groups for many years, hence the quality and durability of their products, compared to production line vehicles.
It is common practice for the US government to pay private contractors to hire political refuges that are brought to this country and given employment at the trough of the US taxpayer. You and I are subsidizing the employment of these Somali Muslims/Islamics at this meat processing facility and the "company union" ensures that all of their religious needs are meet with deference to the other members at this plant. Once again, the company controls the workers through the "union" and the "union" was created as part of the deal for the workers.
Christians don't have the sort of ritualistic religion that would require the same sort of accomodations, with designated prayer times and all that. The topic of this thread is completely a non-issue.
You think that is a double standard? Where are such accomodations being afforded to Christians or other religions?
I hate to point this out, but just look at the public school calendar.
Christmas is always off, as a matter of fact there is usually a whole week off. If Easter wasn't on a Sunday it would be a day off as well. Hmmmmm I wonder why there isn't school on Sunday to begin with.
Around here, Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are off, even though they are called "staff days" now.
And I am aware of at least one school district (there are probably hundreds across the nation) that give 2 or 3 Jewish holidays off.
These "accomodations" are ingrained in our daily lives. Do we think it is a coincidence that Sunday is not part of the regular work week, as opposed to Wednesday or Monday, or Friday being part of the 2 day off "weekend"?
You think that is a double standard? Where are such accomodations being afforded to Christians or other religions?
In god we trust on money, Christmas holiday, Easter holiday, etc etc etc
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