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madicarus2000, I have been really thinking some about the anonymous stranger, restraint, family and politics.
For about 27 hours I really convinced myself I would stop posting--altogether and in particular here at P&oC, then it dawned on me: I really want to share my experiences and defend my principles. If I stop posting perhaps someone will say something similar to what I had in mind, but it wouldn't be my words or my thoughts.
So, I'll have to listen to the anonymous strangers and remind myself they are not my family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000
I forget the actual quote, but it's along the lines of "the things family shouldn’t talk about are politics and religion". The reason being you know it will get pretty heated.
So now we get to discuss both with anonymous strangers and so the restraint to hold back by some is eliminated.
It appears that we argue from our knowledge base, but I for one fail to see that we are talking the same language.
Words like, "you liberals," you pro-illegals," "socialism" etc. spark reactions but if they are not presented in a commonly understood language we are not debating but slinging arrows at each other and most often to no avail.
I'm sure we all have dictionaries, or at least access to a language site, and could take a few minutes to look up some expressions and find their meaning. We can and should also look up a reference to share when defending or attacking an issue.
The art of debate is not attack, but discussion. Merely saying, "you _____ are ____," is not constructive.
If the issue at hand is important to you (us) then it should also be important to get the language and the facts more accurate.
I try, and occasionally, fail to make my point, but I try not to debate through intimidation or accusation.
If I did I would be shouting madly, losing my voice, at some of the inane posts that get repeated and repeated--sheer venom!
And, if you are speaking "tongue in cheek" at least put up one of those smilies so we know where you are coming from rather than imagine what you are saying. The subtlety is lost otherwise!
Can we try to be civil?
Its because labeling is so simple that a child can do it. I listen to conservative radio and thats all I hear. Everyones a label. Everythings the "liberals fault." Its how political sheep get controled.
I like that, pimps, how political sheep get controlled. However, I don't listen to conservative talk radio--but hear 'enuf about it anyway.
Sometimes I want to buy a life-time's supply of dictionaries and hand them out during conversations! - Along with some good civics and history books!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpsgangtasandhustlas
Its because labeling is so simple that a child can do it. I listen to conservative radio and thats all I hear. Everyones a label. Everythings the "liberals fault." Its how political sheep get controled.
Well, two plus months have passed, and rather than see improvement here at P&oC, I've seen more rancor, more dismissals of people's thoughts, and in some cases, venom.
Well, two plus months have passed, and rather than see improvement here at P&oC, I've seen more rancor, more dismissals of people's thoughts, and in some cases, venom.
Some people don't seem to be hanging around here much anymore.
I forget the actual quote, but it's along the lines of "the things family shouldn’t talk about are politics and religion". The reason being you know it will get pretty heated.
Actually, it's because each is a matter of conscience, and is thus personal. There once was a time in this country when respect for personal autonomy and freedom of individual conscience was an important cultural value. E Pluribus Unum. Less so today. Much less so. Today we have legions of preachers of hate who will demonize those who hold an opinion they disfavor as being evil people inherently. Civil and useful discussion of both religion and politics is quite possible and was once widely practiced. Such is not the case within the environment that these latter-day well-poisoners have created.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000
So now we get to discuss both with anonymous strangers and so the restraint to hold back by some is eliminated.
On the level of practice, this is certainly true, but on the level of principle, why should all this restraint be required to begin with? Is it because we have let ourselves become the equivalent of angry pit-bulls ready to attack the first time any of our ideas is critiqued by another? Can we no longer abide the thought that others might hold perfectly sane and valid opinions that are different from our own? If so, I would suggest that this is an acquired, not an inherited, behavior, and that we would do well for ourselves in seeking to un-acquire it as quickly as possible. There is important work to do...
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