What exactly will Obama "CHANGE"? (Taliban, Afghanistan, regime)

[katzenfreund]

Ok, folks ... please stay on topic and stop the personal attacks.

[KevinM782]

Originally Posted by r-rated

if you don't trust government, then what are going to do? You have to pay for services and security. Spending can be done responsibly, it can be done. The democrats have done it, president Clinton did it and Obama will too. Under the democrats we had a surplus. remember?

Here is an idea. Why don't you actually do a little research before you make these false assumptions? Clinton never had a surplus. The national debt increased each year under administration. Clinton claimed there was a surplus because he paid down the public debt, but he doesn't tell you that the inter-gov debt holdings (ie. they took from social security) went up by more than that amount. The average deficit from 1994 to 2000 is about $180 billion. So much for responsible spending...

[r-rated]

Originally Posted by KevinM782

Here is an idea. Why don't you actually do a little research before you make these false assumptions? Clinton never had a surplus. The national debt increased each year under administration. Clinton claimed there was a surplus because he paid down the public debt, but he doesn't tell you that the inter-gov debt holdings (ie. they took from social security) went up by more than that amount. The average deficit from 1994 to 2000 is about $180 billion. So much for responsible spending...

Mr super intelligent, mr. I know it all, you should do some research and show me a successful government with a thriving economy that doesn't spend money on its citizens. If Clinton was "paying down the public debt" that means there was less spending genius. What exactly are you proposing? stop spending alltogether, stop collecting taxes and let our society rot, what is your solution genius? Our entire system is based on "credit" we borrow from our future, our children, don't you know that, genius? The money our government collects in taxes is not enough to sustain our way of life, we have to borrow from our children...

[KevinM782]

Originally Posted by r-rated

you should do some research and show me a successful government with a thriving economy that doesn't spend money on its citizens. If Clinton was "paying down the public debt" that means there was less spending genius. What exactly are you proposing? stop spending alltogether, stop collecting taxes and let our society rot, what is your solution genius?

Why do I even bother posting? You obviously don't read them. I specifically said in a previous post that I am not advocating for no government spending! I am saying that they passed the point of responsible spending a long time ago.

It does no good to pay down the public debt if you are raiding social security in order to do it! That is money that has to be paid back. Let me make this simple:

national debt = public debt + inter-gov debt

The public debt went down, but the inter-gov debt went up by more meaning the national debt went up overall. Follow me? Ok, if the national debt went up that means there was more spending! I don't know how to make this any more clear.

[r-rated]

Originally Posted by KevinM782

Why do I even bother posting? You obviously don't read them. I specifically said in a previous post that I am not advocating for no government spending! I am saying that they passed the point of responsible spending a long time ago.

It does no good to pay down the public debt if you are raiding social security in order to do it! That is money that has to be paid back. Let me make this simple:

national debt = public debt + inter-gov debt

The public debt went down, but the inter-gov debt went up by more meaning the national debt went up overall. Follow me? Ok, if the national debt went up that means there was more spending! I don't know how to make this any more clear.

I see you only answer what you want to answer. What are you proposing? and are you aware that our entire system is based on credit. The money we collect in taxes wont sustain our (American) way of life, there will always be a public debt and government debt. What we and our government must do is try to spend less, avoid wasteful spending by not starting wars like the one in Iraq, and stop supporting dictatorship governments, etc. So, I am asking again, What are you advocating? With our way of life we "must" borrow from our future, our children...

[KevinM782]

Originally Posted by r-rated

I see you only answer what you want to answer. What are you proposing? and are you aware that our entire system is based on credit. The money we collect in taxes wont sustain our (American) way of life, there will always be a public debt and government debt. What we and our government must do is try to spend less, avoid wasteful spending by not starting wars like the one in Iraq, and stop supporting dictatorship governments, etc. So, I am asking again, What are you advocating? With our way of life we "must" borrow from our future, our children...

I am proposing just what I have said in my last few posts: CUT SPENDING!!! Bush increased spending, Clinton increased spending and Obama wants more of the same. There will be a point where we won't be able to borrow any more and when that time comes we will be in trouble. Outspending what the government takes in each year just isn't sustainable. A little debt is good, but we are beyond excessive at this point.

[Anonymous Political Junky]

Originally Posted by KevinM782

I am proposing just what I have said in my last few posts: CUT SPENDING!!! Bush increased spending, Clinton increased spending and Obama wants more of the same. There will be a point where we won't be able to borrow any more and when that time comes we will be in trouble. Outspending what the government takes in each year just isn't sustainable. A little debt is good, but we are beyond excessive at this point.

McCain was right about one thing and that was when he said that everything needed to be cut, slashed, except the veterans, defense and entitelment programs. In my opinion even some of the entitlement programs need to be cut, especially the ones where people can collect a check without ever having worked a day in their lives.

[mofford]

If something has to be cut to keep spending in check, let it be defense. Ultimately, our economy at home is more important than the fate of Iraq. Just pull the damn plug, and divert 50,000 troops to Afghanistan/Pakistan and send the rest back home. If it takes a complete withdrawl from the whole of the middle east and the end of foreign aid, to bring the budget into balance, so be it. Better that than going belly up into a great depression or total devaluation of the dollar. How safe will the world be with a total US economic collapse? Lets work at a feverish pace to get off oil, thats how you destroy the power of our enemies.

[rosscountry]

Originally Posted by mofford

If something has to be cut to keep spending in check, let it be defense. Ultimately, our economy at home is more important than the fate of Iraq. Just pull the damn plug, and divert 50,000 troops to Afghanistan/Pakistan and send the rest back home. If it takes a complete withdrawl from the whole of the middle east and the end of foreign aid, to bring the budget into balance, so be it. Better that than going belly up into a great depression or total devaluation of the dollar. How safe will the world be with a total US economic collapse? Lets work at a feverish pace to get off oil, thats how you destroy the power of our enemies.

The question they should of asked at the debate should have been "If you had to choose between spending to improve our economy or keep the war going, what would be your choice?"

the answer to this question would have made the headlines and Americans will have a clear understanding of what the canditates main priority would be. it would be interesting to see if anyone could talk their way around it though.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by mofford

If something has to be cut to keep spending in check, let it be defense. Ultimately, our economy at home is more important than the fate of Iraq.

Actually, your entire economy, even the fate of your country hinges on Iraq.

Originally Posted by mofford

Just pull the damn plug, and divert 50,000 troops to Afghanistan/Pakistan and send the rest back home. If it takes a complete withdrawl from the whole of the middle east and the end of foreign aid, to bring the budget into balance, so be it. Better that than going belly up into a great depression or total devaluation of the dollar.

You have it backwards. A complete withdraw from the Middle East will result in the US going belly up, and you won't see a balanced budget for the rest of natural life, which might not be too long, because of a "Great Depression and total "devaluation" of the dollar.

$1 = 0.68 Euros and $1 = 2.52 Romanian Lei.

Can you explain in your own words, without cutting and pasting from Pukipedia, why the Euro has a greater value than the US Dollar, but the US Dollar has a greater value than the Romanian Lei?

To keep you from wasting your time, it has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, or gold, or Democrats, or Republicans, or the "housing crisis," or bank failures, or bail outs.

If you can answer that question, then you can explain why, assuming the current circumstances don't change (ie the US does not go to war with Russia), will the Euro have a greater value than the US Dollar for the rest of your life?

Again, it has nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, or gold, or Democrats, or Republicans, or the "housing crisis," or bank failures, or bail outs.

You should be able to answer that one with a single word, especially since I gave you the answer.

And now I'll show you what separates the intelligent people from those who are not intelligent.

In 1995, oil and natural gas (and lots of minerals) were discovered in the five countries comprising Central Asia. The amount of oil and natural gas is estimated to be 3 to 5 times the amount in the Middle East.

On the top of that, it's mostly light sweet crude oil and light sweet intermediate crude oil.

After getting the pipelines in, they started with the oil wells and feeder pipelines, and current production is about 1.5 Million barrels per day.

What will their production be 20 years from now?

Not 1.5 Million barrels per day. Over the next 20 years, they'll build about 30,000 oil wells and bring production up to 5-6 Million barrels per day.

That's good because US production will be 1 Million barrels per day less, and so will Norway, Saudi Arabia and a few other countries, plus Syria will be done, and so will Romania and a few other countries, and on top of that, 2 more countries will become net importers before 2012, and 7 will between 2012 and 2015 (including Iran).

So, the world will need that oil.

If Russia controls Central Asia, in which currency will Russia sell the oil and natural gas on the world market?

If you said US Dollars, you're wrong. Russia no longer buys or sells anything on the world market in US Dollars, and neither do nearly 100 other countries (that's another hint to the answer to one of the previous questions).

What if China gains control of Central Asia? In which currency will they sell the oil and natural gas on the world market?

Not US Dollars.

And what would happen to the US Dollar? If you answered the previous questions correctly, it will "devaluate."

There's a "housing crisis" and a "banking crisis" and a bail out, and none of those things concern you, because Cost Inflation will still be eroding disposable income of Americans and it will eventually lead to a recession (a "when" not "if" thing).

Imagine the US Dollar losing even more value because of lesser demand on the world market and greater demand for other currencies, like the Euro, Ruble, and Yuan.

If the US went into a recession/depression, it would never recover. The worst part of the Great Depression was 1931 when the GPD dropped 48% in a matter of months. It took 7 years to get back to where it started, and the only reason it did is because of WW II. Had WW II not started, it would have continued on through the end of the 1940s.

If that happened now, the GDP would drop from $14 Trillion to about $7 Trillion.

That would be about 40 Million jobs, gone, permanently, and barring a world war, it would last 12 to 15 years, and it wouldn't actually recover, rather people would just get used to having a GDP of about $9 Trillion annually and you would still have Cost Inflation, unless the US abandoned its currency.

That's why the US is in Iraq, so it can maintain some sort of influence in the region, and at least some in Central Asia. Once the US decides what it wants to do with Iran/Pakistan so that it has road, rail and air access to Central Asia from the Persian Gulf/Arabian Sea, it can exert more influence in Central Asia and have a chance to control the oil and natural gas there.

If the US leaves now, it may never get back in. There might not even be an Iraq 20 years from now, and the US will have a difficult maneuvering around the Chinese carrier battle groups in Persian Gulf/Arabian Sea (they already have a naval base in Baluchistan)

Iraq is instrumental in safeguarding your future and that of your children.

Originally Posted by mofford

How safe will the world be with a total US economic collapse?

A lot safer than it is now. Better, too, as the standard of living in the developing world would increase greatly, especially since Americans would not longer be hogging the world's resources.

Originally Posted by mofford

Lets work at a feverish pace to get off oil, thats how you destroy the power of our enemies.

That's very short sighted. What you would do is enrich them at your expense.

Even if you never touched a drop of oil again (not possible) you would still need to control Central Asia to ensure the oil and natural gas is sold in US Dollars to prevent the destruction of your economy and life style.

Personally, I liked the life-style of the 1960s and I'd go back in a heartbeat.


There is one good thing about your plan: You won't need a national health care plan.

You want to cut foreign oil like Tia Juana Light from Venezuela, Bonny Light from Nigeria, Arab 35, Arab 37 and others, well, a lot of people are going to die.

All of your pharmaceuticals contain petro-chemicals made exclusively from light oil. Those petro-chemicals cannot be made from Illinois Intermediate, West Texas Intermediate, Mid-Texas Sour, California Heavy or any other heavy oils in the US or Canada.

With imported light oil, people with Type II Diabetes, and heart/high blood pressure problems would all die in their mid-40s to mid-60s.

That would be a good thing. It would save money for Medicare, Social Security, drop health care costs drastically, and eliminate a lot of workers from the workforce.