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Old 07-21-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
16,084 posts, read 11,792,199 times
Reputation: 12904

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When government is "obligated" to treat everyone, then it has the power to prohibit self destructive acts on the grounds that it raises the cost. Or that patients are obligated to comply with their treatment, or be charged for wasting valuable resources.
Regardless of the expense, such a system is a surrender of freedom for the illusion of security.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
775 posts, read 1,222,443 times
Reputation: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
When government is "obligated" to treat everyone, then it has the power to prohibit self destructive acts on the grounds that it raises the cost. Or that patients are obligated to comply with their treatment, or be charged for wasting valuable resources.
Regardless of the expense, such a system is a surrender of freedom for the illusion of security.
Not quite. Surrendering of freedom for the illusion of security is the same as paying your monthly premium to the private health insurance industry; only that if you were to contract something like cancer--or any other illness where you *really* need the health insurance, or diabetes, etc ( even if you are in top shape ) they can and have dropped people all together.

The LEAST they could have done with that watered-down health care bill, was to at least put a public option in it. So, that would in essence, let each American taxpayer decide for THEMSELVES if they should stay with a private insurer, or choose the gov't option. Let it be THEIR CHOICE! You know why they wouldn't do that? Simply because the private health insurance companies fund these politicians ( on both sides ) and they know the record amount of people who would opt for the gov't option *ONLY* because it would be cheaper for them. All one has to do is look to our neighbors to the north. Do you see a battering ram of people who would WANT healthcare like we have down here? Don't think so!
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:00 PM
 
201 posts, read 217,686 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
We become the USSA (UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA) tommorrow - goodbye America!

People who can't understand the definition of socialism or spell the word "tomorrow" shouldn't make spectacular claims.

However, modern socialism for everyone would be a great step in the right direction. For now, only the most-wealthy enjoy such a reasonable form of government.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
775 posts, read 1,222,443 times
Reputation: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by alleged return of serfdom View Post
People who can't understand the definition of socialism or spell the word "tomorrow" shouldn't make spectacular claims.

However, modern socialism for everyone would be a great step in the right direction. For now, only the most-wealthy enjoy such a reasonable form of government.
I couldn't have said that better myself.

The US is *SO FAR* from actual socialism it isn't even funny. The only ones who are "socialized" are the ultra-elite, all at the expense of the US taxpayer.
Furthermore, anyone who says the US is anywhere even *near* socialism; much less at it, not only doesn't know what socialism is, but they've never been to a country that has a socialist government to know what it's like.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:49 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,048 posts, read 2,679,627 times
Reputation: 699
An America under the guidance of Barack H. Obama could not manufacture toe nail clippers that functioned properly.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
775 posts, read 1,222,443 times
Reputation: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraggingCanoe View Post
An America under the guidance of Barack H. Obama could not manufacture toe nail clippers that functioned properly.

An America under the guidance of some tea crapper in the White House wouldn't even know how to use those toe nail clippers, so it wouldn't even matter.

I'm not an Obama supporter, but considering the alternative......
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 56,096,862 times
Reputation: 24788
I have an even more radical proposal. Let us try pure Capitalism as described by Adam Smith. A capitalism so pure there is no government interference with business except to collect taxes for the basic necessities and own the "natural" monopolies.

There would be no regulation of the banks or the stock markets. There would be no government licenses, patents or mining claims on public land. There would be no consumer protection or bank account guarantees. No social Security or welfare and never any government bailouts of the financial system after the inevitable bubbles burst.

Let’s try that and see how well it is liked by everyone.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:12 AM
 
1,461 posts, read 1,424,814 times
Reputation: 790
Read the constitution and tell me where it mentions an economic system other than one based on slavery. It doesn't. The silence on this is deafening and has been an issue since President Washington endorsed a national bank which conservatives today would call socialistic.

Fact is since the founding of the Republic, the Federal govt. has always been involved with business. Tariffs are another source of "socialism" one could argue as well as the nationalism of the lighthouses under President Washington and the use of Federal troops to collect taxes with him at the end.

Without Federal programs to do what the private sector can't do we would be a backwater. The Transcontinental Railroad, homestead acts, the Panama canal are a few examples of the Federal govt. doing sucessfully what the private sector can't or won't.

I was reading some papers of Benjamin Franklin on economics and he believed in a mixed system - just like we have always had. I would suggest going and getting his writings and papers and reading them.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,831,772 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I have an even more radical proposal. Let us try pure Capitalism as described by Adam Smith. A capitalism so pure there is no government interference with business except to collect taxes for the basic necessities and own the "natural" monopolies.

There would be no regulation of the banks or the stock markets. There would be no government licenses, patents or mining claims on public land. There would be no consumer protection or bank account guarantees. No social Security or welfare and never any government bailouts of the financial system after the inevitable bubbles burst.

Let’s try that and see how well it is liked by everyone.


We're already there!


Peace!
brian
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:32 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
13,378 posts, read 21,700,193 times
Reputation: 13430
The US was more socialist in the 50s than it is today. Just study the historic tax rates and you'll see why.
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