Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
For a lot of people, it's very tempting to say "if you make $250,000+ per year, TOO BAD if you don't like paying high taxes -- forgive me if I don't cry for your poor little rich self."
However, it's wrong in PRINCIPLE. It's about your character - are you honest and responsible, or are you greedy and spiteful?
It's this Robin Hood idealogy of stealing from the rich to give to the poor. If the poor don't like being poor, they can change it in two ways:
THE HARD WAY: work hard, study hard in school and graduate, and work to put yourself through college even if it's just a 2-year community college to start with
THE EASY WAY: sit back and elect politicians who, in return for your vote, will unethically take money away from rich people and give it to you
The poor are poor for a reason. In America, the system has ALWAYS been that if you are smart enough and willing to work hard enough, you can achieve ANYTHING YOU WANT. If you're poor in America, it's because you're just not as clever and/or not as hard a worker as others. If you're an incompetent 7th-grade drop-out f'-up who can barely hold onto a job flipping burgers at McDonalds...that's your own fault. You make your own choices and decisions, and the consequences are yours to bear. If you're an incompetent f'up, it's not our fault, nor is our job to make it right. Life ain't fair, not everything gets made right.
Just as when you make good decisions you get to enjoy the good consequences (rewards), when you make bad decisions you have to bear the bad consequences. Your actions, good or bad, are yours alone -- and you alone own the consequences, good or bad.
It's stupid to punish people for doing well. For every dollar you make, ****** 'Bama wants to have his big liberal government swoop in and snip sixty-eight cents out of your hand -- meaning that when you work for a dollar, you only get 32 cents. That's WRONG and UN-AMERICAN...remember the Boston Tea Party?
The idea that the harder you work, the harder the government bleeds you and steals from you (and let's face it, taxes are legislated stealing) - that's dumb. It should be the harder you work, the MORE you get, not less.
You want to eat and not live under a cardboard box? GET A JOB!
You want nice things in life? STOP BEING A STUPID F'-UP SO YOU CAN GET A JOB OTHER THAN MCDONALDS OR WALMART!
CEOs already steal from the poor and average to live their lavish lives. You think CEOs living in mansions who pay even middle management so little they can't afford homes is honest and demonstrating strong character? Reverse Robin Hood is what we've been living in this country.
I call Bullsh*t. Some people are poor because they are lazy, but the great majority of poor are poor because they were born into it and many tried as hard as they could and still couldn't get out. When you are very poor, you spend all your energy making sure you don't starve to death. Self-improvement goes out the window. You start making bad decisions because you are desperate.
Sometimes you can make good decisions and take good actions and it STILL turns out bad. This idea that everybody who is poor is that way by choice is really ridiculous. What if you get hit by a car while you're walking to your 3rd job? What if the house you could barely afford to keep burns down or gets washed away in a hurricane? What if your parents are disabled and you have to support them rather than saving your $?
I guess you don't care about any of that. Well, I do. Democrats do. We think when bad luck hits good people, the government should step in and help.
They'll never understand because they most likely never had to struggle much in life. I know how hard it is. I had to put myself through college and figure out the corporate world all on my own - I didn't have college educated parents who groomed me for corporate American and paid my way until I landed a great job.
They also don't understand that in order for the rich to live their lavish lifestyles, somebody still has to mow lawns, haul trash, serve them in restaurants, work at gas stations and grocery stores, etc. I'd prefer that all the people in the lower end jobs not be living at poverty level from paycheck to paycheck. Of course those with more education and leadership skills should be earning more, but where should the line be drawn? We've clearly passed that line long ago as wealth has shifted upward.
CEOs already steal from the poor and average to live their lavish lives. You think CEOs living in mansions who pay even middle management so little they can't afford homes is honest and demonstrating strong character? Reverse Robin Hood is what we've been living in this country.
Wrong.
And again: life isn't fair. In this world, we don't all have the same salary. We never have, and we never will. Some people will always make more money than other people, either by brains or hard work or luck. The fact that you're jealous doesn't mean they should be punished, you selfish toad. That was Hitler's idea -- I don't like you, so rather than live and let live, I'm going to hurt you.
Every beehive has its worker drones, we can't all be on top. There will be millionaires, and there will be poverty. That's just life.
And again: there are tons of American success stories, of people born into poverty and even homelessness, who ended up with 5- and 6- and 7-figure salaries. It all depends on how hard you're willing to work.
When I was in kindergarten, the teacher read us this story about a little red hen who asked her friends to help her harvest wheat (but they were too lazy), then to help her grind the wheat (but they were too lazy), then to help her make the dough (but they were too lazy), then to help her bake the bread (but they were too lazy). And then when all the work's done, they show up and want free bread, and don't understand why they're all told "OH HELL NO, YOU LAZY MOTHERF*****S!" (the teacher may have said that last part differently, but you get the point). The point: if you want to share in the rewards, you need to share in the work. Don't be lazy and unwilling to work till you drop, then expect me to give you free money through high taxes because I have worked my ass off and have something in my checking account to show for it.
And again, arrogant liberal who thinks the average person is too stupid and incapable to help themselves so they need your assistance and guidance: you make it sound like the CEO of every large business is out there actively stealing from millions of average Americans, and that's simply not true. And the American people are not idiots who could be bilked like that.
And along with what someone else said before -- I'm not rich, I'm not part of this $250,000+ crowd. I farm corn here in my native South, and I make $8,000-$9,000 per year, which translates to around $4/hour I believe, which is significantly below minimum wage. As far as I know, I qualify for welfare, but I've never taken it and I never would. Everything I have, I've worked for - and I'm proud of that. I own my land and my house - it's not a big house or a fancy house; I have no air conditioning and I heat with coal in a cast iron stove my grandfather made, and I have an outhouse -- but hey, it's a roof over my head. I harvest by hand, since I can't afford a John Deere. The computer I'm typing this on is a fourth-hand machine that's over 10 years old and connects via dial-up...but hey, I feel very lucky to have any computer and Internet at all. My truck may be 40 years old any it may be made of more rust than steel, but it runs and it gets me into town when I need it to. And, by Grace, I have salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ, which makes me richer than any millionaire CEO out there. I may not have much material stuff, but I own everything outright and I have all I need, and I'm grateful for it because I could always have less. And if you showed up on my front porch with a welfare handout, I'd blow you into so many pieces with my 12-gauge that the FBI wouldn't even be able to find a fingernail. I don't want socialism here. It didn't work in the Soviet Union, why? Because it's idiotic and wrong, and it won't work here or anywhere else.
And again: life isn't fair. In this world, we don't all have the same salary. We never have, and we never will. Some people will always make more money than other people, either by brains or hard work or luck. The fact that you're jealous doesn't mean they should be punished, you selfish toad. That was Hitler's idea -- I don't like you, so rather than live and let live, I'm going to hurt you.
Every beehive has its worker drones, we can't all be on top. There will be millionaires, and there will be poverty. That's just life.
And again: there are tons of American success stories, of people born into poverty and even homelessness, who ended up with 5- and 6- and 7-figure salaries. It all depends on how hard you're willing to work.
When I was in kindergarten, the teacher read us this story about a little red hen who asked her friends to help her harvest wheat (but they were too lazy), then to help her grind the wheat (but they were too lazy), then to help her make the dough (but they were too lazy), then to help her bake the bread (but they were too lazy). And then when all the work's done, they show up and want free bread, and don't understand why they're all told "OH HELL NO, YOU LAZY MOTHERF*****S!" (the teacher may have said that last part differently, but you get the point). The point: if you want to share in the rewards, you need to share in the work. Don't be lazy and unwilling to work till you drop, then expect me to give you free money through high taxes because I have worked my ass off and have something in my checking account to show for it.
And again, arrogant liberal who thinks the average person is too stupid and incapable to help themselves so they need your assistance and guidance: you make it sound like the CEO of every large business is out there actively stealing from millions of average Americans, and that's simply not true. And the American people are not idiots who could be bilked like that.
And along with what someone else said before -- I'm not rich, I'm not part of this $250,000+ crowd. I farm corn here in my native South, and I make $8,000-$9,000 per year, which translates to around $4/hour I believe, which is significantly below minimum wage. As far as I know, I qualify for welfare, but I've never taken it and I never would. Everything I have, I've worked for - and I'm proud of that. I own my land and my house - it's not a big house or a fancy house; I have no air conditioning and I heat with coal in a cast iron stove my grandfather made, and I have an outhouse -- but hey, it's a roof over my head. I harvest by hand, since I can't afford a John Deere. The computer I'm typing this on is a fourth-hand machine that's over 10 years old and connects via dial-up...but hey, I feel very lucky to have any computer and Internet at all. My truck may be 40 years old any it may be made of more rust than steel, but it runs and it gets me into town when I need it to. And, by Grace, I have salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ, which makes me richer than any millionaire CEO out there. I may not have much material stuff, but I own everything outright and I have all I need, and I'm grateful for it because I could always have less. And if you showed up on my front porch with a welfare handout, I'd blow you into so many pieces with my 12-gauge that the FBI wouldn't even be able to find a fingernail. I don't want socialism here. It didn't work in the Soviet Union, why? Because it's idiotic and wrong, and it won't work here or anywhere else.
Did I say everyone should make the same amount of money? NO! Re-read my post.
I personally don't want this country to resemble Mexico where a rich elite rule the poverty stricken masses. Mexico seems to be the model the Republicans use when running this country.
Didn't read all of your post there Goober - some rant about Jesus and guns and a death threat?
And again: life isn't fair. In this world, we don't all have the same salary. We never have, and we never will. Some people will always make more money than other people, either by brains or hard work or luck. The fact that you're jealous doesn't mean they should be punished, you selfish toad. That was Hitler's idea -- I don't like you, so rather than live and let live, I'm going to hurt you.
Every beehive has its worker drones, we can't all be on top. There will be millionaires, and there will be poverty. That's just life.
And again: there are tons of American success stories, of people born into poverty and even homelessness, who ended up with 5- and 6- and 7-figure salaries. It all depends on how hard you're willing to work.
When I was in kindergarten, the teacher read us this story about a little red hen who asked her friends to help her harvest wheat (but they were too lazy), then to help her grind the wheat (but they were too lazy), then to help her make the dough (but they were too lazy), then to help her bake the bread (but they were too lazy). And then when all the work's done, they show up and want free bread, and don't understand why they're all told "OH HELL NO, YOU LAZY MOTHERF*****S!" (the teacher may have said that last part differently, but you get the point). The point: if you want to share in the rewards, you need to share in the work. Don't be lazy and unwilling to work till you drop, then expect me to give you free money through high taxes because I have worked my ass off and have something in my checking account to show for it.
And again, arrogant liberal who thinks the average person is too stupid and incapable to help themselves so they need your assistance and guidance: you make it sound like the CEO of every large business is out there actively stealing from millions of average Americans, and that's simply not true. And the American people are not idiots who could be bilked like that.
And along with what someone else said before -- I'm not rich, I'm not part of this $250,000+ crowd. I farm corn here in my native South, and I make $8,000-$9,000 per year, which translates to around $4/hour I believe, which is significantly below minimum wage. As far as I know, I qualify for welfare, but I've never taken it and I never would. Everything I have, I've worked for - and I'm proud of that. I own my land and my house - it's not a big house or a fancy house; I have no air conditioning and I heat with coal in a cast iron stove my grandfather made, and I have an outhouse -- but hey, it's a roof over my head. I harvest by hand, since I can't afford a John Deere. The computer I'm typing this on is a fourth-hand machine that's over 10 years old and connects via dial-up...but hey, I feel very lucky to have any computer and Internet at all. My truck may be 40 years old any it may be made of more rust than steel, but it runs and it gets me into town when I need it to. And, by Grace, I have salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ, which makes me richer than any millionaire CEO out there. I may not have much material stuff, but I own everything outright and I have all I need, and I'm grateful for it because I could always have less. And if you showed up on my front porch with a welfare handout, I'd blow you into so many pieces with my 12-gauge that the FBI wouldn't even be able to find a fingernail. I don't want socialism here. It didn't work in the Soviet Union, why? Because it's idiotic and wrong, and it won't work here or anywhere else.
When a tornado comes and smashes your house to bits and ruins your crop and you are left with nothing, I'm sure you will find a way to pull yourself back up with no help from anyone at all
And I'm sure I'm a terrible person for thinking that in a situation like that, the government should step in.
It's stupid to punish people for doing well. For every dollar you make, ****** 'Bama wants to have his big liberal government swoop in and snip sixty-eight cents out of your hand -- meaning that when you work for a dollar, you only get 32 cents. That's WRONG and UN-AMERICAN...remember the Boston Tea Party?
I am sorry I agree w/some of what you said until here. Please cite a reference that stated that O'Bama wants 68 cents on the dollar......
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian
CEOs already steal from the poor and average to live their lavish lives. You think CEOs living in mansions who pay even middle management so little they can't afford homes is honest and demonstrating strong character? Reverse Robin Hood is what we've been living in this country.
That is a whole other issue. Most of the "rich" people are not CEO's getting greedy salaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian
They'll never understand because they most likely never had to struggle much in life. I know how hard it is. I had to put myself through college and figure out the corporate world all on my own - I didn't have college educated parents who groomed me for corporate American and paid my way until I landed a great job.
They also don't understand that in order for the rich to live their lavish lifestyles, somebody still has to mow lawns, haul trash, serve them in restaurants, work at gas stations and grocery stores, etc. I'd prefer that all the people in the lower end jobs not be living at poverty level from paycheck to paycheck. Of course those with more education and leadership skills should be earning more, but where should the line be drawn? We've clearly passed that line long ago as wealth has shifted upward.
Yes, some of "them" do understand. When my husband was in school, and I had just had a baby and was out of work, we got FOOD STAMPS (well me and the baby did, my husband wasn't eligible because he was a student and wasn't working 20 hours per week, no matter that his schooling required about 80 hours of "work" per week). My husband had college educated parents, yes, who live in another country. He was practically left here at age 16 w/ a step sisster that he hardly knew, for the opportunity for a better life. He took a bus to a pizza place for 2 years working and going to college part time. Until he got SCHOLARSHIPS for a state college and went full time. Then he got loans to go to med school, which we now pay $1,000 per month for FOR 30 YEARS. We were as poor of any of you around here claim to be, if not poorer. We didn't live extravagantly. For years we had no cable, the only tv we owned was the one my parents got me on my 16th birthday, used furniture, we didn't own a digital camera or a video camera until last year, and then I bought cheap ones. We had no extra cash, spent 35 dollars a week on food, never ate out, didn't buy christmas or other presents for people, didn't have pets/vet bills, didn't buy new clothes unless absolutely necessary for work and then they were on rock bottom clearance. I handwashed laundry because we only had one car and my husband worked so much it was too hard to get to a laundromat, not to mention that washing at home was free, the rest of the laundry piled up till we visited my mom and did it there for free. every christmas we asked my parents for necessities for gifts, we didn't vacation etc...
I have had it with people saying that other people making $200,000 are RICH. you have no idea what it took for people to hit that $200,000 mark and what kind of debt they are carrying to do so. Enough already. YOu people don't want us to stereotype poor people as being lazy, right? So don't stereotype "rich" people either.
Now that we are "RICH" we are trying to pay all that debt off as well as the mortgage on our house which we could only afford a 2% deposit, the rest financed. We also have a hefty amount of credit card debt due to YEARS of living with a very limited income, and we just had to charge things sometimes.
Enough already with the name calling and assumptions.
I'll never forget a funny time in our lives....
we lived in brooklyn and there was street cleaning on either side of the street, two days a week. We were using my parents 17 year old station wagon as a second vehicle for me to use to get to work while I was pregnant. Unfortuneately it broke down on us, and my neighbor and husband had to go out every tuesday and thursday night to push the car to the other side of the street because of the street cleaning. Finally my parents came and got it. Then I walked 11 blocks to my job as a pharmacy technician, until 5 days before I delivered my first child.
Again, you people have no idea what other people have been through to become "RICH".
I am sorry but I don't feel 200K is RICH. Talk to me about people making 600,000, they might be RICH. But who cares anyway? Just worry about yourself.
Ah, and the lawn thing. Yes, we do have to pay quite a few people for services such as those as I can only do so much and my husband is too busy, and frankly doesn't know how to do home improvement stuff. Believe, me, we pay plenty to have our lawn mowed when I cannot get to it and for the plumber come for things and heating people to work on our furnace etc. Last I knew those people were making pretty good money. As for store clerks, I have nothing to do with how much they get paid. The people I have to pay for stuff get paid well. My uncle is my babysitter and he loves to babysit for my kids because I pay him better than anyone in the family (which I think is appropriate because I have more resources than they do). He's out of work and can use the cash. I wouldn't dream of paying him the minimum I could get away with, I pay him what I would be willing to do the job for, and let me give you a clue, I am no longer willing to watch someone else's kids for money, so it is a pretty good amount.
When a tornado comes and smashes your house to bits and ruins your crop and you are left with nothing, I'm sure you will find a way to pull yourself back up with no help from anyone at all
That's exactly what I did after Hurricane Fran, Hurricane Floyd, the F-2 tornado that came through a few years back, and the F-4 tornado that came though many years ago.
And that's exactly what Americans have done for centuries.
Really, we're just fine without you riding in on your big white horse. Thanks anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastlady
And I'm sure I'm a terrible person for thinking that in a situation like that, the government should step in.
No:
* You are trying to phrase things in a way such that the only "reasonable" response would be to vindicate you and make you feel better and more secure by affirming your beliefs
* You are arrogant and condescending for thinking that people are incapable of doing things for themselves and helping themselves.
* Remember that we're not talking about Hurricane Katrina here. We're talking about poor people being poor because of their deficient lifestyles -- their lack of initiative and gumption and guts and good old fashioned HARD WORK.
Biden said 95% of small business makes less then $250K ... he is clueless.
Small business employs fewer than 50 employees (IRS rules not mine), and can make several million a year, this do NOT translate into rich folks, as the overhead eats 99% of this money. I know many small business owners that make less than some of there employees as their money goes right back into the business.
Obama/Biden will destroy everything that makes America great.
Rather than tax the middle class even more (and where I live, $250,000 makes you middle-class, and not even upper middle-class), the government should eliminate some of the more problematic tax breaks now in existence.
I find it scandalous that businesses get to deduct (partially) their "entertainment" costs -- but the cost of education is not deductible. Hell, even school loan interest deductions are phased out at the paltry $75,000 combined household income. I really don't care how many bottles of Veuve Cliquot Wall Street executives must buy before they generate enough profit to pay the electric bill -- this is just so grossly unfair, that the injustice outweighs even the basic utility of taxation. Paying for a lap dance at a strip joint? Sure, that's a business expense. Paying for medical school? Naw, that's just for personal pleasure.
I find it scandalous that interest on real estate mortgages is deductible regardless of the value of the home or even whether it's on a a primary residence. To begin with, I think there is way too much obsession with home ownership in this country -- but okay, I can accept a middle class family getting deductions for interest on their primary residence; I still disagree with it, but I can accept it. Anything beyond the primary residence, however -- as well as luxury estates -- should not be given a tax break.
I think the home office deduction should be severely capped or eliminated altogether. I know, I know, lots of people actually do run their businesses out of their homes, but this is one tax break that is just too prone to abuse. And it's difficult for the IRS to legally prove abuse, even if common sense tells us there is something very fishy about a mainstream dentist buying a $40,000 sofa for his "waiting room", which just happens to be in his living room.
I think it's time religious organizations' charitable status was revoked, with limited exceptions. There was a time when churches were major providers of health care, senior services and education. Like it or not, the world has changed dramatically, and many types or religious organizations are simply not charitable in nature. Actual hospitals, day care centers, nursing homes and schools that provide basic secular education may keep their non-profit status -- but the rest of religious organizations, including the places of worship themselves, should be excluded from tax breaks. Not only will this ease the burden on the fisk, it will eliminate all those pesky arguments over whether our government subsidizes religion, and whether the government is overstepping its bounds by telling preachers what they may or may not preach.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
