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If that public school is determined to be subpar, I think parents should have the right to use a voucher to go elsewhere provided that they supply transportation and pay for any differences.
And do you have proof of this? If the schools are failing it's the fault of the LOCAL VOTERS. Schools in the US are locally controlled. If you don't like the way they're being run, GET INVOLVED.
When I was in 3rd grade we moved (Dad's job transfer) to an area where my parents friends assured us we would get a terrible education, get knifed at school, etc. My Mom got involved, and by involved I don't mean PTA, my Mom spent a fair amount of time sitting in classrooms, questioning the teachers and Principals. OK some of it was because I was a bit of a discipline problem.
All of us graduated from that school district, all of us top 15% of our class, all of us went to college, two of us (not me) on academic scholarships.
Schools fail because parents aren't involved. When "concerned", dedicated, "get- involved" parents pull their kids out, everyone suffers.
And do you have proof of this? If the schools are failing it's the fault of the LOCAL VOTERS. Schools in the US are locally controlled. If you don't like the way they're being run, GET INVOLVED.
Parents can be involved in either type of situation, vouchers for all schools or not. Vouchers certainly would encourage more creative approaches to education, based upon not having a "captured" customer base.
Parents can be involved in either type of situation, vouchers for all schools or not. Vouchers certainly would encourage more creative approaches to education, based upon not having a "captured" customer base.
Exactly... it's not just about the perception of quality, it's also about teaching methods. We've come close to homeschooling a few times because of the methods of teaching in our daughter's school. We've decided against it because of the social skills learned at school, but have since supplemented her education with after school enrichment programs. We can afford such extras, and the time to dedicate... but many parents can not afford these programs or the time associated with them.
And do you have proof of this? If the schools are failing it's the fault of the LOCAL VOTERS. Schools in the US are locally controlled. If you don't like the way they're being run, GET INVOLVED.
Why the hostility? I thought we were having a conversation here. If you want to get belligerent, ok.
Tell the thousands of kids that graduate high school every year and are unable to read that the local voters are at fault. Tell the kids that are bullied and extorted every day and end up becoming dysfunctional adults that the local voters are at fault. Tell the parents of the children who are killed or commit suicide because of the bullying and other pressures at school that the local voters are at fault.
Blame the voters all you want, but choosing between two bad candidates isn't really a choice at all. Look at the last five presidential elections - and the one we're coming up on - all the choices suck(ed), but you don't have many options. You choose the one that's "less bad" and hope that there's a better option next time.
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Originally Posted by golfgod
Mom spent a fair amount of time sitting in classrooms, questioning the teachers and Principals.
That's fantastic. Not everyone has that option, though. In most families these days, both parents work and can't "sit in classrooms".
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Originally Posted by golfgod
OK some of it was because I was a bit of a discipline problem.
There's a shock.
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Originally Posted by golfgod
Schools fail because parents aren't involved. When "concerned", dedicated, "get- involved" parents pull their kids out, everyone suffers.
You're making my argument for me here...
Schools exist because of money. Without it, they close their doors. We can agree on that, right? Good.
In the current system, there's no competition for that money. For every day that a kid sits in a classroom, they get a fixed dollar amount. More kids sitting in classrooms means more money. They don't have to actually ensure that the kids are learning anything, just that they show up.
Now introduce vouchers. All the vouchers really mean is that the parents have a choice as to which schools their kids attend. It's a simple change, with huge ramifications for the schools - they now have to ensure that the parents are satisfied with the education their kids are receiving and the environment they're receiving it in. If a school is doing a poor job, they lose money. It's that simple. They suddenly are forced to provide a quality education or lose their funding. How can that be bad?
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Originally Posted by KantLockeMeIn
We've come close to homeschooling a few times because of the methods of teaching in our daughter's school. We've decided against it because of the social skills learned at school,
That doesn't have to be a show stopper. My girlfriend and I homeschool her kids (13/15 year old boys), and they're fine in social situations. They make friends very easily and get along with everyone, regardless of age. The only social "skills" they're missing that they would have learned in traditional schools are swearing, bullying, peer pressure, drugs, gangs... all the things you don't want them believing are "ok" in the real world.
When her kids were old enough and she started homeschooling, I was a little apprehensive, but respected her decision - they're her kids, after all. My biggest concern was - you guessed it - socialization. I'm now a proponent of homeschooling for those who understand what it really entails and are willing to do it right. Not everyone can or should, but those who make that choice shouldn't be looked down upon or penalized in any way for their decision.
The problem is two fold. The root problem comes from families. The best school districts are in towns where the parents are involved and care about their kids' education. My area (West Michigan) has tons of great school districts for this very reason. We care about our towns and understand that a good school makes for a good community. We're involved.
BUT...I know that's not the case everywhere, especially in the big cities (Detroit, Chicago, etc) Suppose you have a single mom in the inner city who wants a better education for her kid. She can't afford a private school, but has to send her kid to a district that is simply too big for her to make any impact. I can't tell her "sorry, in order to prop up our failing district your kid will have to get the shaft" No, I'd give her a voucher so that her child would get a better education elsewhere.
I think parents should use vouchers as a last resort. They should definitely get involved first and see how that goes. But if all else fails, Take your kid elsewhere. At the end of the day, education is about the education of the child. It's not about propping up the institution or school funding or whatever.
For the most part, I don't support vouchers. They have their place.
I understand public schools in some parts or most parts of the country need to improve in a major way.
At the same time, giving that money to private schools will not help.
I think the money could be better spent hiring someone to rewrite the curriculm, staff development, etc.
Also you have to realize that kids are not some blank slate where you can just drill over information and they just acquire it instantly. I feel like NCLB ignores this fact.
There are some kids who are more worried about where their next meal will come from or where they will sleep that night than if 2 times 2 equals 4.
There are also just some kids who really just don't care.
I've realized this early on in school, I always had classmates who cared less than I did and I always felt it was such a shame that they dragged down everyone else.
I also think parents just expect teachers to teach their child everything.
I remember my dad working with me on my reading BEFORE Kindgergarden. I knew how to read before I entered school, I knew how to count to 100, etc.
I think vouchers have a place in some districts but a lot of times some parents are just unwilling to take the time and teach their kids.
I feel like vouchers should be determined on an individual basis and based upon income. Parents should also have to pay for some of the education of their child. You decided to have them and you should bear some, if not most of the cost of educating them.
I think vouchers should go to secular private schools and not religious private schools. Supporting parochial schools violates the separation of church and state.
For the most part, I don't support vouchers. They have their place.
I understand public schools in some parts or most parts of the country need to improve in a major way.
At the same time, giving that money to private schools will not help.
I think the money could be better spent hiring someone to rewrite the curriculm, staff development, etc.
Also you have to realize that kids are not some blank slate where you can just drill over information and they just acquire it instantly. I feel like NCLB ignores this fact.
There are some kids who are more worried about where their next meal will come from or where they will sleep that night than if 2 times 2 equals 4.
There are also just some kids who really just don't care.
I've realized this early on in school, I always had classmates who cared less than I did and I always felt it was such a shame that they dragged down everyone else.
I also think parents just expect teachers to teach their child everything.
I remember my dad working with me on my reading BEFORE Kindgergarden. I knew how to read before I entered school, I knew how to count to 100, etc.
I think vouchers have a place in some districts but a lot of times some parents are just unwilling to take the time and teach their kids.
I feel like vouchers should be determined on an individual basis and based upon income. Parents should also have to pay for some of the education of their child. You decided to have them and you should bear some, if not most of the cost of educating them.
I think vouchers should go to secular private schools and not religious private schools. Supporting parochial schools violates the separation of church and state.
The Case Against School Vouchers (http://www.the13thstory.com/krg/words/vouchers.html - broken link)
I love the "It's My Money" argument.
You do realize though that separation of Church and State is phony? No where in the Constitution, nor in the first amendment does it say Church is separated from state.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Separation of Church and State is the catch phrase of the 21st century so secularists can get their way in politics.
You do realize though that separation of Church and State is phony? No where in the Constitution, nor in the first amendment does it say Church is separated from state.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Separation of Church and State is the catch phrase of the 21st century so secularists can get their way in politics.
Whatever.
I don't want tax dollars going to support parochial schools. If parents want their kids to attend a parochial school, they need to pay for it out of their own pockets.
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