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This is not the kind of war you win in the conventional sense. The Iraq War itself has already been won, its the post-invasion occupation that could be lost. The best way to "win" the occupation is to neutralize opposing forces by both military and peaceful means and doing whatever to takes to ensure that the new Iraqi government is prepared to take over. The US can only do so much and it is ultimately the responsibility of the Iraqi government and citizens to secure their country. The US must help the Iraqis with their legal system, training military and law enforcement personnel, and helping with the development of basic infrastructure.
This is not the kind of war you win in the conventional sense. The Iraq War itself has already been won, its the post-invasion occupation that could be lost. The best way to "win" the occupation is to neutralize opposing forces by both military and peaceful means and doing whatever to takes to ensure that the new Iraqi government is prepared to take over. The US can only do so much and it is ultimately the responsibility of the Iraqi government and citizens to secure their country. The US must help the Iraqis with their legal system, training military and law enforcement personnel, and helping with the development of basic infrastructure.
We haven't won anything. The war has bankrupted us, it's the underlying cause of this whole economic meltdown. And the seeds of discontent sown in Iraq will blossom 1000 fold over the next generation. Muslims are an ancient and determined people who've roused the Romans, the Crusaders, The Mongols, Huns, and everyone else who ever had the gall to think the could push them aside. The Iraq War will certainly prove to be the biggest blunder in American history. Perhaps the last.
We haven't won anything. The war has bankrupted us, it's the underlying cause of this whole economic meltdown. And the seeds of discontent sown in Iraq will blossom 1000 fold over the next generation. Muslims are an ancient and determined people who've roused the Romans, the Crusaders, The Mongols, Huns, and everyone else who ever had the gall to think the could push them aside. The Iraq War will certainly prove to be the biggest blunder in American history. Perhaps the last.
Muslims aren't one people, they belong to a variety of ethnic groups and sects. Islam is much younger than many European ethnic groups and Christianity, so I have no idea where you get "ancient" from.
Also, you seem to have a rather one sided view of history, Muslim invaders conquered a large chunk of the world themselves. Islam used to only be the religion of the Arabian peninsula and was spread by invasions and forced conversion. You seem to be under the impression that Muslims have historically been some kind of plucky underdog that somehow manages to come up on top. At least that I can gather from "Muslims are an ancient and determined people who've roused [all those they have fought] who ever had the gall to think the could push them aside".
Muslims aren't one people, they belong to a variety of ethnic groups and sects. Islam is much younger than many European ethnic groups and Christianity, so I have no idea where you get "ancient" from.
Also, you seem to have a rather one sided view of history, Muslim invaders conquered a large chunk of the world themselves. Islam used to only be the religion of the Arabian peninsula and was spread by invasions and forced conversion. You seem to be under the impression that Muslims have historically been some kind of plucky underdog that somehow manages to come up on top. At least that I can gather from "Muslims are an ancient and determined people who've roused [all those they have fought] who ever had the gall to think the could push them aside".
As surely as Islam waited out kermit Roosevelt in Iran, so shall they wait out Bush in Iraq. Truth about Islam is most of their "conquering" was done more by the carrot than te stick. Muhammad himself was forced into war after he escaped to Medina.
I don't agree with the dogmatic fables of Islam any more than I agree with Christianity's propaganda. But the fact is their society is deeply rooted in a very determined spirituality. The flimsy injustice of Iraq will be remembered long after Limbaugh is forgotten.
As surely as Islam waited out kermit Roosevelt in Iran, so shall they wait out Bush in Iraq. Truth about Islam is most of their "conquering" was done more by the carrot than te stick. Muhammad himself was forced into war after he escaped to Medina.
I don't agree with the dogmatic fables of Islam any more than I agree with Christianity's propaganda. But the fact is their society is deeply rooted in a very determined spirituality. The flimsy injustice of Iraq will be remembered long after Limbaugh is forgotten.
How is Islam going to wait it out?
Are you referring to the fundamentalists? I'm assuming that you are. If that is the case, I see no reason why the fight shouldn't go on. They are expansionist and violently opposed to all Western values. The fewer of them, the better.
Now, I have the sneaking suspicion that you will accuse me of buying into Bush's "they hate us for our freedom" argument, but that is true in a sense. Granted, there are far reaching geopolitical reasons for Islamic terrorism, but they are extremely hostile towards Western culture and they are not afraid to go beyond their borders to combat it. Look at how Salman Rushdie was targeted by Islamic fundamentalists for his book or how Danes have been attacked over the cartoons of Mohammad or how the Dutch artists have been murdered for criticizing and insulting Islam. I see any opportunity to stop these people or at least slow them down as a good thing and considering that it doesn't take invading a Muslim country to anger fundamentalists to the point where they want to commit acts of terrorism and murder, I don't think that the Iraq invasion turned too many Muslims into anti-American fundamentalists, although it undoubtly turned many Iraqis into anti-American nationalists.
Are you referring to the fundamentalists? I'm assuming that you are. If that is the case, I see no reason why the fight shouldn't go on. They are expansionist and violently opposed to all Western values. The fewer of them, the better.
Now, I have the sneaking suspicion that you will accuse me of buying into Bush's "they hate us for our freedom" argument, but that is true in a sense. Granted, there are far reaching geopolitical reasons for Islamic terrorism, but they are extremely hostile towards Western culture and they are not afraid to go beyond their borders to combat it. Look at how Salman Rushdie was targeted by Islamic fundamentalists for his book or how Danes have been attacked over the cartoons of Mohammad or how the Dutch artists have been murdered for criticizing and insulting Islam. I see any opportunity to stop these people or at least slow them down as a good thing and considering that it doesn't take invading a Muslim country to anger fundamentalists to the point where they want to commit acts of terrorism and murder, I don't think that the Iraq invasion turned too many Muslims into anti-American fundamentalists, although it undoubtly turned many Iraqis into anti-American nationalists.
No, I'm not talking about "fundamentalists". They are aberrations, like serial killers. They just get a lot of press, particularly here.
You don't actually think the average Muslim is fooled by Bush's phony pretenses for his war in Iraq, do you? There's 1.5 billion of them, and they have 10 kids apiece starting in their teens. The millions of displaced people in Iraq, the millions who have suffered without electricity, clean water, medicine, for the past 20 years thanks to Bush (1 &2) and Clinton - they have an entire lifetime of memories of true suffering - of what really happened. Not scant coverage of a war far away.
The true repercussions of the disaster of the Bush Wars won't be felt for a long time, but no one will forget the mothers, fathers, and family killed by American oil men.
No, I'm not talking about "fundamentalists". They are aberrations, like serial killers. They just get a lot of press, particularly here.
You don't actually think the average Muslim is fooled by Bush's phony pretenses for his war in Iraq, do you? There's 1.5 billion of them, and they have 10 kids apiece starting in their teens. The millions of displaced people in Iraq, the millions who have suffered without electricity, clean water, medicine, for the past 20 years thanks to Bush (1 &2) and Clinton - they have an entire lifetime of memories of true suffering - of what really happened. Not scant coverage of a war far away.
The true repercussions of the disaster of the Bush Wars won't be felt for a long time, but no one will forget the mothers, fathers, and family killed by American oil men.
I'm not sure if we should put much stock in what the average Muslim thinks in many cases. After all, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a best seller in many Muslim countries.
Have you known any Iraqis? I currently live in Australia and I used to know several quite well when I was living in Brisbane which actually has a decent amount of Iraqis who came as refugees over the past ten years. They aren't exactly fond of the US for the very reasons you mentioned, I was talking with one guy and he was telling me that during the Gulf War a laser guided missile was a few feet off from hitting a government building and hit a small apartment building instead and needless to say, he wasn't too thrilled about the incident. However, they were generally ambivalent towards the US invasion, they said that they knew it was mostly about securing oil supplies, yet they were very pleased with the idea that Saddam was going to be removed (many of them lost family members to both the Gulf War and Saddam) and felt that at least with invasion, the years of embargoes and continued bombing would at least end. Granted, this is purely my own personal experiences and it is quite possibly that they were very much in the minority of Iraqi opinion, plus the fact that since they have lived in a foreign for a few years, it might have changed their opinion of their own country (I know it has certainly done it for me), but it was interesting none the less.
So I think the main way of "winning" is to make sure the Iraqi government can be successful. It is not America's position to "win" the country, but rather to ensure that Iraq will be able to develop a successful economy, be able to effectively fight insurgents, and that its legal and political system is both stable and just to the majority of Iraqi citizens.
This is not the kind of war you win in the conventional sense. The Iraq War itself has already been won, its the post-invasion occupation that could be lost. The best way to "win" the occupation is to neutralize opposing forces by both military and peaceful means and doing whatever to takes to ensure that the new Iraqi government is prepared to take over. The US can only do so much and it is ultimately the responsibility of the Iraqi government and citizens to secure their country. The US must help the Iraqis with their legal system, training military and law enforcement personnel, and helping with the development of basic infrastructure.
glad to know you are anti Communist but why does your post remind me of what we have done to Iraq is tantamount to Socialism? There is no "winning" when you occupy and the British learned this lesson nearly a century ago.
Now keep working because somebody has to pay that $10 billion a month we are wasting every month in Iraq.
glad to know you are anti Communist but why does your post remind me of what we have done to Iraq is tantamount to Socialism? There is no "winning" when you occupy and the British learned this lesson nearly a century ago.
Now keep working because somebody has to pay that $10 billion a month we are wasting every month in Iraq.
It's no secret that Iraq has been a complete money pit for a number of reasons and thing is that so many people have no idea where so much of the money has gone.
Basically what needed and what needs to be done is to develop basic infrastructure like roads and water supply, train the Iraqi police and military, and help establish a basic rule of law. It is an expensive process, but I think Bush really fumbled on this one in the sense that so much has been spent with so few results.
Just to make things clear, I'm talking about what needs and should have been done, not so much what has actually happened.
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