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Old 10-17-2008, 10:42 AM
 
877 posts, read 2,011,314 times
Reputation: 463

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Well, maybe not all liberals, but a vast majority of them.

Any time the talking points of the American Left are put under the microscope and attempted to be analyzed under unbiased conditions, liberal members of this board immediately jump on the attack.

Consider the thread on Nazism, where I questioned the talking point "Right wingers are Nazis!" Rather than engage in rational debate, discussing whether the Nazis really exhibited socialism (as opposed to merely giving it lip service), it quickly turned into a flame and troll fest.

Similarly, the post on the inaction of civilized countries in Kenya, rather than being about what obligation civilized nations have to prevent genocide and whether they are living up to that obligation, flames about the Iraq war sprang up.

A post on how suicide bombers can kill innocent people turned into an attack on Christianity, same with any posts about homosexuality or abortion.

Is this visceral reaction merely a consequence of the fact that more posters here are liberal than conservative (see the politics forum for evidence)? I have noticed that there are a few liberals who, while I do not necessarily agree with them, are able to articulate their positions without resorting to personal attacks and insults.

Should the "Great Debates" forum be restricted to certain posters who petition for access? Should it be open with selective banning of people who don't adhere to the "high standards" expected?

Your input is appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:46 AM
 
4,044 posts, read 5,906,682 times
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I think that most people who feel strongly about anything are incapable of rational debate. Not all, but probably most.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:48 AM
 
877 posts, read 2,011,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
I think that most people who feel strongly about anything are incapable of rational debate. Not all, but probably most.
So the fact that liberals tend to exhibit this trait here at C-D is merely a consequence of there being more liberals on the board than Conservatives?
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:54 AM
 
4,044 posts, read 5,906,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
So the fact that liberals tend to exhibit this trait here at C-D is merely a consequence of there being more liberals on the board than Conservatives?
I don't notice more liberals than conservatives exhibiting an inability to debate rationally on city-data. I'm not sure why you're presenting that as a fact.
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,224,792 times
Reputation: 1052
Differing assumptions are a large barrier to rational debate.

What a person "sees" is largely determined by what one "expects."
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Ottawa, Canada
609 posts, read 1,130,819 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
I don't notice more liberals than conservatives exhibiting an inability to debate rationally on city-data. I'm not sure why you're presenting that as a fact.
i dunno, check out some of the debates the Op is mentioning.

The "why wont somebody do something" one quickly turned into an anti-war, anti-bush "all people like that are sheeps arguement" against us.

the nazi one is a fact of history that most people accept as "they were right wing". but the discussion on that board and anylyzing of the nazi system seem to point out quite obviously that the nazis were anything but "100% right wing" and actually do swing left more.

on the "do they have soulds thread", Tricky D, a slef proclaimed atheist and lefter, starting attacking the chrisitians, and even made up facts about certian terrorists being christians. he then went on to justify terrorist attacks now because "christians did it before"


overall though i only find this sort of irrational debate from certain members, and reading my posts, (look for the part where i swear) you'll see who i presonally believe they are. other than that I like to think i have any personal problems with most people who would disagree with me. we have different opinions but i still respect many of them.

and example would be me and greatday in the "prostitution thread". but then again i also have some problems with some people in that thread too. but that stems form what i find is a lack in intelligent reasoning and an opinion backed up by nothing.

someone may agree with me but if there opinion is well backed up, I have 0 problem

what we need though is some group participation. and that means a mass denounciation of people who just make stupid comments all the time (look to the nazism and do they have souls debate for reference, Hint look for the T)
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,224,792 times
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Persons who define words such as 'socialism' in ways that go against widely accepted definitions established by experts slow down debate.

Persons who approach all realms of knowledge based on their political beliefs slow down debate.

Persons with a weak knowledge of history slow down debate.

Persons who are close-minded about new discoveries about society and human nature slow down debate.
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:46 AM
 
Location: West Texas
2,449 posts, read 5,767,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
Persons who define words such as 'socialism' in ways that go against widely accepted definitions established by experts slow down debate.
Persons who approach all realms of knowledge based on their political beliefs slow down debate.
Persons with a weak knowledge of history slow down debate.
Persons who are close-minded about new discoveries about society and human nature slow down debate.
Leaves very few to debate, huh? lol

In all seriousness, I think that's what debate is about. The exchanging of ideas and views to pursade one (or many) that one perspective is better than another.

However, to debate fact is ludicrous at best. 2+2 will always equal 4. I don't care how many people debate it. So, to debate factual information is just trolling or spinning wheels. In the same vein, bringing specific religious overtures into a debate as an "end all - be all" is just as ignorant. I don't mean making religious references, but, of course, those references have to be germane to the topic. Just saying, "Well... God said so" makes no sense at all to those who may not believe in God, or the same God as the poster. Even to those who do, it often makes no logical sense.

But when facts have been provided supporting different sides of a topic, then I think logic, intelligence, and respect normally can prevail. There have been several topics where someone has been able to pursuade me to believe their point of view, if not at least truly question mine.
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:00 PM
 
877 posts, read 2,011,314 times
Reputation: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
Persons who define words such as 'socialism' in ways that go against widely accepted definitions established by experts slow down debate.
Persons who approach all realms of knowledge based on their political beliefs slow down debate.
Persons with a weak knowledge of history slow down debate.
Persons who are close-minded about new discoveries about society and human nature slow down debate.
Another way you try to shut down debate. Those who don't agree with you are obviously uneducated. Rather than present facts to support your position, you dismiss all arguments until the opponent comes around to your way of thinking.

While I applaud you for not flaming and calling others offensive names, you're not really engaging in what the rest of society would call "debate."
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,224,792 times
Reputation: 1052
What is often termed 'debate' on this forum is merely an exchange of opinions about a poorly formed question. A poorly formed question is a question for which there is little chance of an unambiguously correct answer being found based on widely accepted "facts," such as "why" questions that take a form like "Why are liberals incapable of rational debate?".

For many political issues, there is no "correct" answer but rather what needs to be done is a matter of implementing the opinion of the majority, which should be determined as a product of the political process, via elections for instance.
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