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Maybe the contractor that the American tax payer is paying millions of dollars to in Iraq is worthy of his Higgghhhh salary. He even just had a huge amount paid out by America for losses he made in Iraq. He advices the Iraqi Govt about how a Govt is run.
I do have a serious question for those who seemed just disgusted about what CEO's of companies make. Do you feel the same about actor/actresses and sports people? I mean, some of these people are making 20 million PER FILM.
Kristine
Sure do. And for what? I don't watch movies or sports, so I don't see how people can think these people are worth the money.
The CEO's make nothing, Their employees do all the work and they get all the credit and money.
This is very revealing about you. It shows that you can't comprehend what value a CEO provides and explains your resentment toward them.
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Originally Posted by karfar
Hmm, let me think about that. As I said before, I have no problem w/people making money when they actually use their money for good.
The fact that they make money means someone believes that they are providing more value than they are receiving. That someone is who pays them - not you. I am happy to see people make lots of money because it provides example and incentive for others to do well and I also have knowledge that they are contributing value on a much larger scale which is good for society as a whole.
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Originally Posted by Redisca
I am not disgusted with what CEO's make per se. I am disgusted when a CEO runs a company into the ground, devastates its employees' retirement accounts, wipes out the investors' holdings, and puts a burden on the public -- all through fraud and shady corporate practices -- and still gets to walk away with a "golden parachute", usually to a higher-paying job, after performing a few shenanigans in courts and legislatures. I am disgusted that Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code basically allows corporate executives to bleed an ailing business (ailing because of their ineptitude or dishonesty) completely dry, so that when the company finally liquidates, the investors get bupkes. I am disgusted that investors have very little control over corporate officers, and that in today's corporate culture, CEO's have little incentive to make the company they lead prosper, rather than lining their pockets at the company's expense. A lot of CEO's of public companies today have little interest or expertise in the company's actual business (unless it's a bank) -- and that's disgusting also. I am disgusted by corporate welfare, made possible by outrageous tax deductions. I am disgusted that a CEO can go for decades never paying for his own lunch, while his secretary must pay for hers and give up a greater percentage of her income as taxes.
Apart from these considerations, I don't care how much anyone makes. When Hollywood actors start being rewarded for wiping out people's life savings and leaving whole states without electricity in the middle of a heat wave -- then I'll start being disgusted at them also.
The people you are talking about in Enron got prosecuted - not exactly rewarded. This provided a good example to investors to pay better attention and diversify. Golden parachutes are negotiated beforehand and it is very difficult to negotiate one in the current climate.
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Originally Posted by desertsun41
And you don't work yours off?
I know for a fact you work harder then the CEO next to you. The difference is he makes a million dollars an hour and you make some pittance under $15/hr.
Yea....Im bitter.
Oh yea....I forgot. If you make one measly mistake, your fired. If your CEO friend ruins the company, causes the company to go under, gets hundreds of workers laid off, loses millions for the stock holders he is responsible for and in the end leaves another foreclosed empty building on the city's tax rolls......then he gets a hundred million dollar bonus.
Yea....Im bitter.
I can see why you are bitter. You think that the CEO's make a million dollars an hour. None do. And no one working 'next to' a CEO makes $15. At that level, they make more. Your major complaint is that the people lose their jobs. CEO's are the people who create those jobs - a fact you overlook until the job is gone and it is the fault of the CEO. The stock holders have their money invested voluntarily and have the responsibility to research the companies they are invested in. A foreclosed empty building produces more taxes than an empty lot - what you would have without CEO's.
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Originally Posted by freefall
The market dictates what actors, sports players get - people paying for tickets to be entertained, if they suck at what they do, no one pays to see them. when the last time your CEO entertained you? Did he invite you to ride on his million dollar yacht? they make stupid decisions, get a golden parachutes, then get another CEO job - its like a rich boy club, once your in, your gold. CEOs, they are legends in their own minds.
The free market also dictates what CEO's make. I guarantee that any Board of Directors would double your current salary to pay you less than their current CEO if they thought you could produce to their level. It has to do with proven performance - not a rich boy club. Actors get over paid for movies that lose money too. They get paid on past performance in both cases and in both cases they make mistakes that lose money for the risk takers that invest in them.
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Originally Posted by yayoi
So, can I assume that you don't mind a CEO getting a big fat bonus after he/she ran a company into the ground enough for the government to bail them out?
If they negotiated the bonus based on past performance, that is fine. If you don't like it, make darn sure you don't buy stock in companies that have CEO's with golden parachutes. That is why it is fair for the Government to require no golden parachutes for companies they are bailing out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4
I don't hate them, sure I would accept the money too. I do believe the majority make way more than what they actually are worth to their companies, if you are talking about multinational corporations. There are a few exceptions who are visionaries and actually turn companies around. The poster who talked about CEOs who run their companies into the ground and then bail with a golden parachute makes a great point too.
I think that athletes and Hollywood stars earn way more than what they actually contribute to society too, but I don't hate them for it. I do feel it is unfortunate that it is too expensive for families to go to sporting events any more and almost too expensive for families to go to a movie anymore, throw in popcorn and a drink.
There is always alternate entertainment options like minor league baseball or major league lacrosse. there is the dollar movie. And the fact that you can move up in entertainment provides incentive for you to produce more. Heck you could get an MBA and become a CEO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell
It's not so much what CEOs make that's annoying as it is what some CEOs walk away with after running a company into the ground. You won't see actors/actresses continually making big $$$ unless their movies make big $$$, unlike a former executive of AIG who ran the company stock down 40% before walking away with $68M.
As I said above, both actors and CEO's get paid on past performance. This amount was negotiated long ago. The risk takers in both cases use that to estimate future results. When movies flop and the producers lose money, that actor makes less on the next movie. Exactly the same for CEO's. Do you honestly believe that your former executive of AIG will be able to negotiate a $68M parachute in his next position? By the way according to an earlier post, that is equal to less than 2 weeks severance pay at a million dollars an hour. Last time I was laid off, I got 2 months.
Sure do. And for what? I don't watch movies or sports, so I don't see how people can think these people are worth the money.
Exactly! But no one complains about those greedy bastards do they? They are far more worthless and do much less than CEOs. See what they are is faux liberals... they really give liberals a bad name IMO. They walk the charitable/caring about everyone walk so they come across as great people. Truth is they are bunch of greedy a**holes only concerned about their career and reputation. They have luxury of choosing any ideology that they wish with no repercussions because they are loaded and there is no end of work in sight. Thats right Jack Nicholson, "YOU HAVE THAT LUXURY!". So with this halo they have constructed around their fat heads they can put the vacuum to your wallet... they then redirect a portion of that money to their reputation fund and the rest goes to their massive estates and Bentley payments.
How about we take all of those hollywood pieces of sh*t to court for tricking everyone into paying $10 for 90 minutes of entertainment at the theater, what the hell is that all about? With $10 of fuel or tools I can make my money back ten-fold or more. All this not to mention all the garbage and influence that is pumped out of Hollywood these days... disgusting. I hope one of those kalifornian wildfires ravages that scummy patch of land.
Exactly! But no one complains about those greedy bastards do they? They are far more worthless and do much less than CEOs. See what they are is faux liberals... they really give liberals a bad name IMO. They walk the charitable/caring about everyone walk so they come across as great people. Truth is they are bunch of greedy a**holes only concerned about their career and reputation. They have luxury of choosing any ideology that they wish with no repercussions because they are loaded and there is no end of work in sight. Thats right Jack Nicholson, "YOU HAVE THAT LUXURY!". So with this halo they have constructed around their fat heads they can put the vacuum to your wallet... they then redirect a portion of that money to their reputation fund and the rest goes to their massive estates and Bentley payments.
How about we take all of those hollywood pieces of sh*t to court for tricking everyone into paying $10 for 90 minutes of entertainment at the theater, what the hell is that all about? With $10 of fuel or tools I can make my money back ten-fold or more. All this not to mention all the garbage and influence that is pumped out of Hollywood these days... disgusting. I hope one of those kalifornian wildfires ravages that scummy patch of land.
Um. I have. And I let my feet...and my wallet...speak for me.
I do have a serious question for those who seemed just disgusted about what CEO's of companies make. Do you feel the same about actor/actresses and sports people? I mean, some of these people are making 20 million PER FILM.
Kristine
Its not remotely the same. Actors & athletes earn money for an organization & that organization pays them for it. The more they draw the more they make, but they dont get to decide what to take, dont have the ability to drive the corporation into the ground sucking it dry, cant make decisions regarding the lives of the people actually earning the money or anything else.
Now a CEO is in a position to rob a corporation blind, toss out benefits for his employees, cut back on anything to save a buck, ect ect, ect.
Its not remotely the same. Actors & athletes earn money for an organization & that organization pays them for it. The more they draw the more they make, but they dont get to decide what to take, dont have the ability to drive the corporation into the ground sucking it dry, cant make decisions regarding the lives of the people actually earning the money or anything else.
Now a CEO is in a position to rob a corporation blind, toss out benefits for his employees, cut back on anything to save a buck, ect ect, ect.
CEOs are prosecuted for robbing a corporation. A vast majority never even consider robbing a corporation though some do. Think about it. It makes no sense. Why would someone making so much money and having such a fine lifestyle risk all that for a little more money. Also it generally takes years of proven integrety to rise to the ranks of a CEO.
A CEO should toss out benefits if that is what it takes to save jobs. If he tosses out too many benefits, he will lose his best workers first. That kills companies and his future earnings.
A CEO should be saving a buck in every instance where that buck is not earning a good rate of return for the shareholders. That is his job. etc. etc. etc.
No, it's none of my business. Your assumption is correct. My problem is with the government bailing out the business. It's not a function of the government to do this. Moreover, it is the business of the stakeholders of the company that vote for or con when it comes to CEO compensation. The CEO is not going into the board meeting with a gun and a ski mask.
I don't disagree with your view about the bailout. If the CEO's had any decency they wouldn't have taken the welfare handouts. But then again, we're talking about Wall Street
That is not the question asked in this thread. It is" I do have a serious question for those who seemed just disgusted about what CEO's of companies make. Do you feel the same about actor/actresses and sports people? I mean, some of these people are making 20 million PER FILM. "
You didn't say CEO's of federally funded companies who have golden parachutes that are now defunct.
You also asked about actors and actresses and sports people.
Again, you sound like you are just begrudging other peoples money they have earned because you don't earn as much.
Are you suggesting that a factory line worker or McDonald's burger flipper should make as much as a CEO and held just as accountable for their businesses failings? Or are you suggesting that a CEO have the same qualifications as a burger flipper and get paid the same amount?
Come again? Where did I say all of this? I just asked one poster one question in this thread.
Oh, and to answer the OP question, as long as my money isn't involved, I don't care.
CEOs are prosecuted for robbing a corporation. A vast majority never even consider robbing a corporation though some do. Think about it. It makes no sense. Why would someone making so much money and having such a fine lifestyle risk all that for a little more money. Also it generally takes years of proven integrety to rise to the ranks of a CEO.
A CEO should toss out benefits if that is what it takes to save jobs. If he tosses out too many benefits, he will lose his best workers first. That kills companies and his future earnings.
A CEO should be saving a buck in every instance where that buck is not earning a good rate of return for the shareholders. That is his job. etc. etc. etc.
Except that as a CEO...they generally "voluntarily resign" with a fat severance package, and another decent job lined up.
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