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Old 10-23-2008, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,913,736 times
Reputation: 8910

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I have been told, by a British person, that in his country the word 'socialism' is not considered such a dirty word.
One reason he gave is that when the government steps in to bail out a bank or business, it changes the management to those who might do a better job.

We, I believe, do that when a company declares bankruptcy.

We just gave GM and other car manufacturers a $25 billion, which was separate from the 'other' bailout money.

It is called a 'loan', but the terms are supposed to be very generous.

It is also 'supposed' to be for developing an electric car - but I don't believe this is the case, because they already had one which is attested to by many disgruntled Californians when the cars were not allowed to be purchased and were just taken away.

So they already had such a car.

Tesla Motors, in California, now has such a car.
Why is the government stifling competition by pumping money into their competitor?

American auto makers, especially GM, are notorious for not being responsive to what the consumer wants. They are happy to make those big gas guzzlers because the profit margin is so high. They dug a grave for themselves.

But it is not the first time. The first time the American public wanted a more economical car, did they respond? No, it was foriegn competition. Then American automakers started making such garbage; built in depreciation, they called it; that many people who needed a reliable vehicle would trade their cars in every three years. Again, it was foriegn competition that offered a car that would hold together.

Now, they stupidly - what? - lost the data on the electric car that they HAD made and are asking for money? And, we just GIVE it to them? What? To support the same old tired crotchety management?

What IS going on here?

It seems that American managers take all the money on the upside, but do not share in the downside and do not have to (if the company is big enough) suffer the consequences of their horrid decisions.

I think we must face it. In America, we DO have a ruling class. One hand protects the other. The employees pay for their mistakes by losing jobs. Investors lose college tuition for their kids and retirement funding. All of society, suffering as we are, pay for their bailouts.

Look at AIG. None of these guys have to PAY for their errors. They just come to the government with their hands out and get money.

We DO have a protected ruling class.

Are you as angry as I?
How do we fix this?

Oh, and is it that we DO turn over management during the bankruptcy process, and these bailouts were a way to protect these fat clowns?

AND - I am now hearing that GM may have to declare bankruptcy anyway.

Jeeze, I could spit nails!
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:30 PM
 
Location: At my computador
2,057 posts, read 3,403,822 times
Reputation: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
How do we fix this?
Get involved. Know who your Senators and Representative are. (U.S. Senate and United States House of Representatives, 110th Congress, 2nd Session) Find out what they've been up to at Citizens Against Government Waste: Homepage.

Charlie Wilson was able to take down the Russians because he didn't blow money on earmarks for his district. If we had more Wisons, Pauls, McCains and Flakes, these things wouldn't be an issue.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:49 PM
 
Location: toronto, Canada
773 posts, read 1,212,589 times
Reputation: 283
That's the problem with welfare, in all its forms. Why learn to adapt when you can get a state sponsored bailout any time you need it. America is one country amongst many in the global market, and that market has no patience for those who stick their head in the sands.
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:22 PM
 
522 posts, read 1,789,825 times
Reputation: 151
Get involved and contact your Senators and Representatives? It sounds great in theory, but within lies the problem-- these career politicians do anything BUT represent us. My district representative has never asked me what I think of an issue. These crooks ran that "bailout" bill down our throats before we knew what hit us...and used our money to do it. As soon as an honest public servant would run for office the opposition would crush him/her with money, with influence, with smear campaigns. The current system does not bring out "the best and the brightest" in America. It brings out the most corrupt and greedy, or at very least the most willing to have his/her entire life put the the wringer in a public forum to simply do The People's work. There's only one way to fix this system...GET RID OF THE MONEY! We're currently witnessing the pinnacle of the problem...hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars are being spent by the two candidates monthly to tell us how they propose to fix a system where hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars change hands with a wink and nod in backrooms of bars and on private plane trips to the Caymans. Get rid of the money, and we might have a chance to get honest, hard-working, representatives that might actually represent something.

And yes, I'm angry. Extremely.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:07 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,389,934 times
Reputation: 4013
The so-called bailout is a Republican plan to address a Republican problem that Republicans were warned was coming but chose to do nothing about until it became a crisis so big that no one could ignore it any longer. You all are complaining about Republicans having done what Republicans do. Particularly laissez-faire free-market Republicans. The ones most of you voted for. When is the next time that you all will be fooled and then betrayed by these people?
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:15 PM
 
Location: At my computador
2,057 posts, read 3,403,822 times
Reputation: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
The so-called bailout is a Republican plan to address a Republican problem that Republicans were warned was coming but chose to do nothing about until it became a crisis so big that no one could ignore it any longer. You all are complaining about Republicans having done what Republicans do. Particularly laissez-faire free-market Republicans. The ones most of you voted for. When is the next time that you all will be fooled and then betrayed by these people?
When my choice is between socialism or an unbridled market? In less than 2 wks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
Get involved and contact...
Well, my experience is that you have to do more than p's 'n moan. You should be involved a little more than that.

Understanding politics? "The Prince" by Machiavelli is still relevant if you can pick up principles and apply them to superficially different situations.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,442,658 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Thousand View Post
Understanding politics? "The Prince" by Machiavelli is still relevant if you can pick up principles and apply them to superficially different situations.

How about The Federalist Papers? Probably a lot more relevant!
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:49 PM
 
Location: At my computador
2,057 posts, read 3,403,822 times
Reputation: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
How about The Federalist Papers? Probably a lot more relevant!
Actually, in all sincerity, with all due respect and in my opinion, that is probably one of the stupidest suggestions I have ever read. I don't mean it's sort of a drive-by stupid. I mean it's as if someone reached into the bowels of ignorance in search of something to make them feel important and pulled out that wad of stink.

Should people read the Federalist Papers? Yes. Would it help with the issue the poster has? No.

Read them some time.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,442,658 times
Reputation: 1052
You're of course entitled to your opinions, such as seeing the upcoming election in terms of socialsm versus the unbridled market. That point of view would be as if from coming from another planet in terms of being uninformed, as far as I'm concerned. So God bless you.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:52 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,389,934 times
Reputation: 4013
May He also lead you into less base and demeaning directions than what have been your recent habit.
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