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View Poll Results: Should States Have The Power To Secede from the USA?
YES 29 27.36%
NO 77 72.64%
No opinion 0 0%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2008, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
3,403 posts, read 4,438,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post

Let's see how many of the people who really feel strongly about this leave the country if he should win the election. I'm pretty sure none of them will!
The Bush family is already building their compound in Paraguay.
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Orange, California
1,576 posts, read 6,329,016 times
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At the end of the day, too many states are reliant on federal money to be able to afford secession. Plus, would all of the citizens of the state that breaks from the union be willing to give up social security?!?! I think not. Social Security (and Medicare) is a federal program and I would think any state that voluntarily leaves the United States (if it were to happen) would forfeit that entitlement. A lot of people love to bash the federal government, but those same people come with open hands when it comes to entitlements that they themselves receive.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,229 posts, read 16,240,888 times
Reputation: 26005
Quote:
Originally Posted by goozer View Post
At the end of the day, too many states are reliant on federal money to be able to afford secession. Plus, would all of the citizens of the state that breaks from the union be willing to give up social security?!?! I think not. Social Security (and Medicare) is a federal program and I would think any state that voluntarily leaves the United States (if it were to happen) would forfeit that entitlement. A lot of people love to bash the federal government, but those same people come with open hands when it comes to entitlements that they themselves receive.
Touche'!
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:44 PM
 
Location: New York
120 posts, read 460,226 times
Reputation: 70
I highly doubt anyone is so racist that they would actually support succeeding from a country ran by a black man, because we all know that's what this is about.
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,842 posts, read 14,027,168 times
Reputation: 16504
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILWRadio View Post
I was taught during my social studies class in Jr. High School, the New England states have provisions written into their state Constitutions that permit them to secede from the USA.

And a friend of mine with considerable legal experience in areas such as this confirmed this fact not too long ago when researching this very subject. The following article on this very subject seems to confirm this fact.

The Northern States’ Rights Tradition by Thomas J. DiLorenzo
JG: Which states? What clause?
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,842 posts, read 14,027,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goozer View Post
At the end of the day, too many states are reliant on federal money to be able to afford secession. Plus, would all of the citizens of the state that breaks from the union be willing to give up social security?!?! I think not. Social Security (and Medicare) is a federal program and I would think any state that voluntarily leaves the United States (if it were to happen) would forfeit that entitlement. A lot of people love to bash the federal government, but those same people come with open hands when it comes to entitlements that they themselves receive.
JG: Though that is the appearance, the reality underneath is frightening.

Reliance on "Federal Money" - since Federal Reserve Notes have no par value (*worthless), and only have legal tender status due to the 300 million "human resources" pledged as collateral on the unpayable national debt (thanks to usury), secession preceded by extraction from socialist obligations would be a step UP from minus 10 trillion, to zero.

Social Security - National socialism is based on several "Big Lies". A. There is no law compelling participation, nor punishing one who does not participate. It's 100% voluntary. If it was compulsory, it would be unconstitutional involuntary servitude. B. It's not insurance for the participants. It's a system to distribute charity from the public treasury, pauperizing all who enroll. C. It is the prerequisite to participate in usury, since no Fed Bank will allow an unnumbered American to "accidentally" engage in usury (proscribed by all religions except Satanism).

Sadly, the most powerful "Communist" front is the U.S. Congress. Since 1930's it has ceased to defend the private property rights of the people.
But as long as you "volunteered", their conscience is clear.

You DID volunteer, didn't you?
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:51 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 8,342,894 times
Reputation: 660
I would certainly hope not. I certainly hope that racism doesn't take precedence over the economic situation of this country and also with the possibility of other terrorist attacks. THe worst thing would be for the United States to fall apart.
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:34 PM
 
6,295 posts, read 11,007,815 times
Reputation: 3085
It would seem as though the following ruling issued in 1869 would prevent states from leaving the Union. Prior to that however, it was legal for a state to leave the Union. I stand corrected.

A U.S. Supreme Court decision rendered in 1869 seems to obviate these persistent claims to sovereignty. Commenting on its 5-3 decision on Texas v. White, Chief Justice Salmon Chase stated that the Union is “composed of indestructable states,” and established on behalf of the high court of the land that secession is illegal.

That being said, the colonies told the King to take a hike and the USA was born. IF things get that BAD then don't be surprised if we see one or more states opt to leave the USA.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,506 posts, read 4,266,650 times
Reputation: 992
There are actually two questions here. Will Obama trigger a secessionist movement?

No.

Can states legally secede from the union?

Yes.

Even though the federal government maintains that secession is not legal, it is a moot point because because the question deals with creating a new sovereign entity (at the state level). Legalistic arguments have no bearing. If a state secedes and the federal government cannot or will not stop it then it is legal, if the federal government does prevent successful secession then it is not legal.
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,049 posts, read 34,481,631 times
Reputation: 10609
Arguments about the legality of secession are fascinating. If a state (or group of states) decides to go that route, doesn't it seem like they wouldn't be particularly concerned whether their proposal is "legal?" They are attempting to separate themselves from the United States, so United States law wouldn't apply to them any more.

Of course, deciding to secede and succeeding are two different things. Aside from the logistics of establishing a new nation (and the necessity of obtaining diplomatic recognition for it), there would be the small but not insignificant problem of having to deal with the armed forces of the United States, which may not look kindly upon such action.
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