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Old 11-03-2008, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Dallas
4,630 posts, read 10,476,550 times
Reputation: 3898

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A few more things to check:

Funding wars: Check here if want to pay for illegal overseas entanglements.

Corporate welfare: Want to hand your money over to Wall St? Check here.

Congressional retirement programs: Check here if you want your public servants to get 100% of their salary for the rest of their lives.

Weapons research: Want to design a better anthrax? Check here.

CIA: Check here to fund covert ops.

Drug War: Want to fund the war on drugs? Check here.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:40 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,004 posts, read 12,592,213 times
Reputation: 8923
5% wont cover poo.

Id be interested to see how many people would opt out of paying for schools now that it is AFTER they used them.

In various versions of this theme I have seen people wanting to opt out of everything including the military saying something to the effect of "ill hire my own security" uh huh.

>CIA: Check here to fund covert ops.<
Of course you all wont fund this one... until some jihadist POS blows up someone you love.

>Weapons research: Want to design a better anthrax? Check here.<
Another one of those things Im sure none of you all would check even though more money goes toward things like better aircraft than anthrax.

Funny. Alot of you all would call me socialist. The liberals all call me a heartless corporatist. Funny how I manage to occupy the entirety of the political spectrum.
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:04 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,476,088 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
The problem is that the poor and middle class WANT to buy more than what they make...
The problem is that under consumerism, you can't simply suck all economic gains off into corporate profits. You actually have to pay workers enough to be able to consume what is produced, otherwise you are stuck holding inventory. Then you have to slash interest rates to get consumers to borrow the money needed to purchase that inventory overhang. But those low interest rates send long-term asset prices soaring, inviting unscrupulous financial types to game the system sufficiently to create a tipping point where return to normal rates of interest triggers a global economic collapse.

Typical case of how the unrestrained greed inherent in laissez-faire free-market capitalism can get you both coming and going.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,219,039 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
The problem is that under consumerism, you can't simply suck all economic gains off into corporate profits. You actually have to pay workers enough to be able to consume what is produced, otherwise you are stuck holding inventory. Then you have to slash interest rates to get consumers to borrow the money needed to purchase that inventory overhang. But those low interest rates send long-term asset prices soaring, inviting unscrupulous financial types to game the system sufficiently to create a tipping point where return to normal rates of interest triggers a global economic collapse.

Typical case of how the unrestrained greed inherent in laissez-faire free-market capitalism can get you both coming and going.
You completely ignore exporting and importing of goods in your example. What you state is accurate only within the context of a completely "closed" system.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:55 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
9,375 posts, read 20,801,239 times
Reputation: 9982
The problem is that no one would personally want to pay for any of those, and there would be very few checks. Socialists want someone else other than themselves to pay for these programs. It's akin to theft.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:05 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,476,088 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
You completely ignore exporting and importing of goods in your example. What you state is accurate only within the context of a completely "closed" system.
What effect would net exports have had? Or low to negative savings rates? The narration meanwhile wasn't an economic model, but a bit of economic history. The so-called "jobless recovery" from the First Bush Recession was built on corporate profits while declining real wages ate into purchasing power. Do the patriotic thing...open an equity line and go shopping. Spend, spend, spend our way to prosperity. This is just encouragement for people to spend more than what they had been given to spend in order to clear the shelves and maintain profitability...
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
A "flat tax" is not fair. A millionaire paying 10% is paying a lot more than a middle class citizen is at 10% and probably using far less services. I like a "Citizen Fee". A certain amount that is exactly the same for all people. That would truly be fair.

I would be willing to throw a bone to the socialists though if I had to. A flat sales tax would be a decent compromise. Rich people spend more because they have more to spend. So at least the "evil rich" would be paying more so that the marxists could sleep at night. The reason that this compromise is acceptable is that at least the government would be out of the business of spying on people's incomes which is really none of their business.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Here's my Fair Tax alternative. Ask citizens to volunteer to pay for each war. If you don't volunteer to pay for it, you pay nothing toward the cost of the war. Everybody who does volunteer to pay for it pays an equal share of the cost, billed monthly. That sounds fair to me. Everybody who wants America to go to war, raise your hand, monitors will come around with promissory notes for you to sign. Same thing goes for the failed banks. If you want to help bail out the bankers, raise your hand.

Last edited by jtur88; 11-04-2008 at 01:46 PM..
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:39 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,476,088 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
I would be willing to throw a bone to the socialists though if I had to. A flat sales tax would be a decent compromise. Rich people spend more because they have more to spend. So at least the "evil rich" would be paying more so that the marxists could sleep at night.
Suppose we sit down at a table and play a little game. Here are the rules. Every time you give me a one-dollar bill, I will give you a ten-dollar bill. End of rules. How long are you likely to be willing to play this game? How fair will it be if I let you play for three minutes, but let someone else play for several hours? That's how fair a flat tax is. Socialist or not, very few tax analysts think highly of flat taxes...
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:59 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
Please explain saganista, I don't see what you mean.
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