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lets see your gay pride parades for one. Do we have heterosexual pride parades? Any chance to say they are gay they throw it in! Gay teachers are having issues with the line of teaching and indoctrination of the gay beliefs taking kids to see gay marriages etc.
It is an attack on the very fiber this country was built on and thrives on!
There are lots of laws in this country that we don't like, but to change them would be bad for the country and it's people.
And no I am not Mormon! But I do think that "ALL" religions need to ban together and fight this "together"
Then they should all lose tax exempt status...churches should stay out of politics altogether.
Really? I don't agree at all. It did at least indirectly affect that church and it directly affected its members in California. Can that church take an interest in its members in California? And was it morally wrong for GLBT people in California to speak up and encourage people in Connecticut. Did what happen in other states affect, at least indirectly, people in California?
....
But despite your insistence that the redefinition of marriage in California "COULD NOT" have affected the rest of the country, everyone else in the United States knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that what happened in California would ABSOLUTELY affect everyone in every other state.
That is a load of BS, that DOES NOT jusitfy your church in Utah butting in just like ROME has no business with this election either...
Your assumption is lame. If that was so then Abortion would be banned nationwide just like South Dakota did in 2006.
Your argument is weak.
You are completely free to move to Utah. I'm sure that you will be welcomed there.
Oh i am sure I will end up there. Raising hell.
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Absolutely I dispute it. Do you mean to tell me that you watched a television program and now you understand what went on with those six people? I had thought I was interacting with a person who was at least a little knowledgeable on the issue, but I've discovered that I'm dealing with raging passions based on nothing more than one person's view after watching a few minutes of single TV show. Geesh. This is worse than I thought...
This was a 4 hour show on the mormons doctrine and history in depth and it had MORMON ELDERS speaking on the show. I am speaking of the MORMON ELDERS statements that I do not agree with.
Marlin Jensen is an LDS church historian and member of the First Quorum of the Seventy.
"... What is the official position of the church on homosexuality?
... Our position on that is that there is a single standard actually of morality for all members of the church, and that essentially is that we abstain from all sexual relationships and sexual relations prior to marriage. Once we do marry, we are loyal, completely loyal, to our marital partner, and that the only marriage sanctioned by God is of a man to a woman. As Paul said, "Neither is a man without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord." So there is really no allowance within our doctrine for a homosexual relationship of woman to woman or man to man.
Many people have been excommunicated, even faithful Mormons. In intellectual areas, what is the line crossed in which excommunication is the answer?
First I'd like to observe that, in distinction to what happens in most religions, we have had some studies come out of the Brigham Young University which indicate that the more educated a Latter-day Saint becomes, the deeper he believes, which is an interesting ratio, so that we're not afraid of intellectuals or of learning or of knowledge, that we have Scriptures that say we can be saved no faster than we gain knowledge and that the glory of God is intelligence. So the intellectual has a wonderful place within the church.
Where an intellectual, I think, can get into difficulty is when that intellectual person takes a position and begins either to attack the general leader or the local leaders of the church or begins to attack the basic doctrine of the church and does that publicly. ... That's, at least in my humble view of it, probably the definition of apostasy. At that point a person in that situation would be counseled and lovingly invited to become at least quiet -- (laughs) -- if not orthodox, and if they refuse and persist in their public opposition to leaders or to the doctrine of the church, at that point I think the church has no option but to take some disciplinary action toward them with the hope that they will humble themselves and change their hearts and become more contrite members of the church, which often happens, but not always."
It was not a show of Anti-mormons speaking on the church. It was fair and balanced and I happen to believe the words of the now non mormons more convincingly. Your bigwigs just weren't that convincing, especially when they agreed that thinking can lead to leaving the church and that is why they do not allow anyone to question the doctrine.
This show was not just about Mormons who have left the church. I watched with an open mind because I WILL end up in Utah and would really rather get along then fight about things.
I realize i won't have to speak religion to my neighbors so that is a plus.
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By the way, do you believe in the Holocaust? If you had seen exactly one anti-Holocaust "documentary" and no response to it, do you think you would be one of those people who claim that it was all a hoax and a conspiracy?
What does the holocaust have to do with the mormon leaders speaking to PBS and me disagreeing with the religion? I had family in concentration camps so YEAH i do know all about the holocaust.
How sad they would oppress people so much as to force them (by threat of excommunication) to remain celibate their entire lives, simply because of sexual orientation. People go crazy when they can't have sex. Pedophile priests can attest to that. I'd say it's the gay mormon's fault for wanting to stay in the church, but some people would lose their families along with the church if they were excommunicated, so they have more to lose than the institution and its oppression. What a terrible choice to make, your family or your freedom to be the way you were born.
There is a lot packed into that paragraph. But yes, it is a difficult situation. We expect and encourage people to live a certain lifestyle, namely that of celibacy outside of marriage. Most do it just fine. Some struggle with it. Not everyone "goes crazy" when they can't have sex. The large number of priests, the vast majority of whom are not pedophiles, attests to that. I am not ashamed to say that we LDS Christians have certain beliefs and standards. Everyone has a choice to join us or to leave us, and we know that that choice isn't equally easy for all people. If people choose to not join us or to leave us, for whatever reason, we are still required to both love and respect them and to treat them as the children of God that they are. It is my firm belief, and the Church strongly teaches, that we are to be loving and accepting of our children who reject the Church or its standards, including those who are involved in gay lifestyles or practices or for any other reason are no longer active in or members of the Church. No one should "loose their family" over these kinds of things. If you know of someone whose family is not accepting of a gay/lesbian lifestyle to the point of it breaking the family apart, then the family is in serious need of some help and is not truly living the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Utah has one of the highest depression rates around (article). This is especially prevalent in women, who are taught to be the good little wife and obey your husband, stay at home, raise 5 kids, and support the church with submission. No wonder there is depression, with all the social pressures of the church, forcing women to submit and gays to go against their nature of being gay or just the human need to have sex.
This makes for a nice theory, but it simply isn't supported by the facts. Other studies have shown that LDS women have equal rates of depression as non-LDS women, and even that LDS women show less depression. The article you point to contains both pro and con statements about the relationship of religion to this.
Check out this page that deals directly with this issue.
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They'd get married so that it's not out of wedlock, but that must be why mormons were so interested in prop 8. It helps keep their members down, which in turn supports submission and profit.
(bracing myself for ad hominem attacks)
So you engage in ad hominem attacks and so expect the same in return? I hope you are wrong. BTW, your snide comments and fanciful explanations about my faith are nothing more than typical anti-Mormon attacks.
And your final jab doesn't even make sense. How could passing Prop 8 "keep their members down"?
Oh, and I think you are mixing up LDS beliefs with those of some other church. LDS almost never talk about submission or submitting in terms of women to men, even though that word is used in the Bible in that context. LDS nearly always use the word "submission" in terms of both men and women submitting themselves to God. You seem to have a minimal grasp of LDS beliefs in this area, relying instead on tiresome stereotypes and filtered anecdotes.
Seriously though, magic underwear??? Are you wearing it right now?
I don't know about any magic underwear, but your fetish over men's underwear is a manageable psychological disorder. A good therapist could talk you through it.
Then they should all lose tax exempt status...churches should stay out of politics altogether.
Really? That's not the way the Founding Fathers, the constitution, the current Supreme Court, or Congress feels about it. Every branch of government since the founding of the United States has agreed emphatically that churches can be involved with politics. What country do you live in?
I don't know about any magic underwear, but your fetish over men's underwear is a manageable psychological disorder. A good therapist could talk you through it.
From LDS.org:
Wearing the Temple Garment
Once people are endowed, they have the blessing of wearing the temple garment throughout their lives. They are obligated to wear it according to the instructions given in the endowment. Those who have been endowed in the temple must remember that the blessings that are related to this sacred privilege depend on their worthiness and their faithfulness in keeping temple covenants.
The garment provides a constant reminder of the covenants made in the temple. The garment should be treated with respect at all times. It should not be exposed to the view of those who do not understand its significance, and it should not be adjusted to accommodate different styles of clothing. When worn properly, the garment provides protection against temptation and evil.
Really? That's not the way the Founding Fathers, the constitution, the current Supreme Court, or Congress feels about it. Every branch of government since the founding of the United States has agreed emphatically that churches can be involved with politics. What country do you live in?
Is that so?
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." - Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
"Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - John Adams, Dec. 27, 1816
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson
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Do you mean to tell me that you watched a television program and now you understand what went on with those six people? I had thought I was interacting with a person who was at least a little knowledgeable on the issue, but I've discovered that I'm dealing with raging passions based on nothing more than one person's view after watching a few minutes of single TV show. Geesh. This is worse than I thought... 
