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Old 12-28-2008, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,296 posts, read 37,224,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
You are completely right - ANY person, married or single, straight or gay, has the rights you noted above. They have to take advantage of them though.

Here in Arizona, there in NO AUTOMATIC surviorship rights for married persons (community property). The ARE surviorship rights available, but they must be so designated.
Good points. Also, I would like to point out that those "automatic" or expected spousal benefits can be legally challenged in court by others, including family members. For that reason alone, it's best to never let the "State" take care of such. It's best, for anybody, to have the appropriate legal agency or attorney taking care of the paperwork long before one dies.
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:32 PM
 
709 posts, read 1,499,382 times
Reputation: 313
A better idea is freedom for everybody: marriage privatization.

Whether you call it a "marriage" or a "civil union", it's just a contract between individuals that the government has a monopoly on defining and enforcing. If you take away this monopoly and let individuals decide, it will work the same way, but more flexibly, and no one will be able to limit the quantities, genders, or whatever else about the people engaging in this voluntary agreement.

It would also have the advantage of making many aspects of "family law" more deliberate: your family contract explicitly defines whether abortion is allowed, how old the kids should be when they're automatically emancipated, what the household rules are, etc.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,797,803 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Same-sex couples can in fact make any legal arrangements they want, from power of attorney to wills, etc. The same can be said for unmarried heterosexual couples. The benefits offered by governments are pretty much in relation to children (tax breaks), but in reality, any parent married or not, can receive these benefits.
Say I did have some contract drawn up saying I can make medical decisions for my partner...sometimes hospitals may not honor that or who carries that around with them 24/7?
When you're married, no one questions this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
I'm not clear about all of these benefits that married people have over singles? My wife and I actually pay more in taxes than if we were not married due to the progressive income tax. We have right of survivor, but the truly single don't need that as far as I can see. I can see how gay couples are disadvantaged, but not singles.
Social security benefits, the transfer of property, money, etc tax-free, married employees can sometimes add their spouse to a health care plan at a reduced rate while a "single" employee cannot do the same for their boyfriend or girlfriend.

There have also been studies that have shown married men earn more than single men, despite the same qualifications.

If you are killed as a result of negligence, then regardless of your marital status, your parents or children can sue in state court for wrongful death. If you are married, then one more person is qualified to complain-your surviving spouse. Legally speaking, it as if if the death of a single person is not quite as wrongful as the death of a married person.

If you are married, your spouse can qualify to take off from work to care for you under the Family and Medical Leave Act. If you are single, no one in your generation is eligible to do the same for you. Sometimes married people get relocated; if their spouses leave jobs to join them, they can collect unemployment.

If you commit murder, your spouse might know you did it but need not testify against you in court. Spousal communications are "privileged." There are no such privileges for a close friend, nor even for parents or children. If you are imprisoned for your crime, your spouse is more likely to be allowed to visit than is the most important peer in the life of a prisoner who is single.

I suggest reading Singled Out: How Singles Are Stereotyped, Stigmatized, and Ignored, and Still Live Happily Ever After
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:30 AM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,035,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
I agree with this and I would do the same for straights. The government should not be handing out a "marriage license" to anybody. All the government should do is give them a "civil union agreement" to sign and notarize. That, in effect, makes a LEGAL agreement between the 2 parties that is registered with the government.
Marriage is a religious thing and should be left to the church. If 2 people- whether gay or straight- get a legal Civil Union Contract and then choose to go through a religious or non religious marriage ceremony, that is up to them. The government should no longer be involved past the signing of the Civil Union Contract.
Conversely, if 2 people feel the need for religious reasons to be married "in the eyes of God" but for financial or other reasons choose not to be in a Civil Union, they could be married in a church without being legally united in a Civil Union. Of course, even though they are married, they would not be afforded the legal rights and protections of those with a Civil Union nor would they be allowed to file as a married couple on tax returns.
This would solve 2 problems- it would put gays and straights on an equal footing and it would get the government out of what is largely a religious domain.
Yes, best solution yet.
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,073,008 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08 View Post
Say I did have some contract drawn up saying I can make medical decisions for my partner...sometimes hospitals may not honor that or who carries that around with them 24/7?
When you're married, no one questions this.



Social security benefits, the transfer of property, money, etc tax-free, married employees can sometimes add their spouse to a health care plan at a reduced rate while a "single" employee cannot do the same for their boyfriend or girlfriend.

There have also been studies that have shown married men earn more than single men, despite the same qualifications.

If you are killed as a result of negligence, then regardless of your marital status, your parents or children can sue in state court for wrongful death. If you are married, then one more person is qualified to complain-your surviving spouse. Legally speaking, it as if if the death of a single person is not quite as wrongful as the death of a married person.

If you are married, your spouse can qualify to take off from work to care for you under the Family and Medical Leave Act. If you are single, no one in your generation is eligible to do the same for you. Sometimes married people get relocated; if their spouses leave jobs to join them, they can collect unemployment.

If you commit murder, your spouse might know you did it but need not testify against you in court. Spousal communications are "privileged." There are no such privileges for a close friend, nor even for parents or children. If you are imprisoned for your crime, your spouse is more likely to be allowed to visit than is the most important peer in the life of a prisoner who is single.

I suggest reading Singled Out: How Singles Are Stereotyped, Stigmatized, and Ignored, and Still Live Happily Ever After
You listed a series of valid point on the disadvantages that unmarried couples face, but I was addressing the assertion that single people are similarly disadvantaged. I don't see any of your points that address that issue.
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,797,803 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
You listed a series of valid point on the disadvantages that unmarried couples face, but I was addressing the assertion that single people are similarly disadvantaged. I don't see any of your points that address that issue.
How are married couples disadvantaged by anything I listed?
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,073,008 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveTodayLez08 View Post
How are married couples disadvantaged by anything I listed?
I didn't say the are. I said single people aren't disadvantaged.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:04 AM
 
4 posts, read 3,344 times
Reputation: 10
right on!!

After all God said "let the children come to me, do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God" he didnt say let the straight children come to me. He included all children and all people.

Any religion or society that does not treat all people as equal and give them equal rights are in violation of the bill of rights and more importantly, God's teachings.

If the church does not teach full equality for everyone, people tend to see the groups that religion leaves out as not equal. For years now, I have called this "thinking with the church brain".

And in turn government wanting to appeal to the majority starts thinking with that same close minded "church brain"

And furthermore, religions that don't treat Gays as equal are being nothing but Hippocrates and should do us all a favor and shut up or close their doors permanently!

and in my opinion the bible only says"when a man lay with a man the same way he lay with a woman both are committing a sin"


Hey here's a clarification to all so called religious people out there. Gay men dont sleep with wemen, Bi men do. So wise up!

But I do feel guys that are truely Gay are tring to fit society's "Norm" by getting married to a wonman and having a family. They do this to fit what society sees as "normal, ewwww I hate that word. nAME ONE THING THAT IS TRUELY NORMAL IN THE WORLD ANYMORE)

This not being seen as "normal" causes gay men to secretly sneak around for gay sex and this, I feel contributes to the Aids
epidemic.

Last edited by pjm193; 06-06-2009 at 05:10 AM.. Reason: didnt want the link in the post
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:48 AM
 
4 posts, read 3,344 times
Reputation: 10
one more thing I just thought of. Even union members get benefits!
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