What is Christianity? (crime rates, gay people, states, claim)

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by chasingclouds

right, especially since our founding fathers came to american and made america with the express idea that we have religious freedon, separation of church and state and the we NOT BE a Theocracy.

People can practice their faith at all because of that, if you research it, even the Baptist were told in this country they could not have their church by people and Jefferson wrote a letter telling them to stop persecuting people for their religion.

When Christians of any kind start to go against the VERY laws and ideal that allow them freedom, is when we all are one vote away from losing our freedoms. Any Christian should be ASHAMED of trying to input their beliefs into our laws and make others follow their moral convictions thus putting their own freedom at risk.

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Are we supposed to vote against our convictions? Would you ever vote for something you personally believed was wrong because society said it was right? Are Christians now supposed to just go into the closet when it comes to politics? By the way, the first amendment gave us freedoms that the government cannot take away. Here is the first amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Jefferson letter was to reassure this pastor that the government was not going to interfere with church business, which is why IRS tax codes are wrong as it intimidates churches into being silent on political matters.

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

Are we supposed to vote against our convictions? Would you ever vote for something you personally believed was wrong because society said it was right? Are Christians now supposed to just go into the closet when it comes to politics? By the way, the first amendment gave us freedoms that the government cannot take away. Here is the first amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Jefferson letter was to reassure this pastor that the government was not going to interfere with church business, which is why IRS tax codes are wrong as it intimidates churches into being silent on political matters.

Fundamentalist Christians make much the same arguments as fundamentalist Muslims, that THEIR faith always trumps the law (re: abortion, gay marriage, etc.). Yet even then, they only fancy the scriptures that support their prejudices (just like the Pharisees), while simply ignoring the ones that don't.

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment." Romans 13:1

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by mateo45

Fundamentalist Christians make much the same arguments as fundamentalist Muslims, that THEIR faith always trumps the law (re: abortion, gay marriage, etc.). Yet even then, they only fancy the scriptures that support their prejudices (just like the Pharisees), while simply ignoring the ones that don't.

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment." Romans 13:1

That passage does not instruct Christians to sit still and do nothing if we have the opportunity to change something that is wrong in our government. Our first priority as Christians is to please God. Not everything government does please God and when we have the opportunity to make a difference (voting, etc.), we have every right and obligation to do so. By the way, voting is not resisting government authorities as all US citizens were granted the rights to vote by our government.

[chasingclouds]

Woe to the Hypocrites

“Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.’”
— Jesus Christ, Mark 7:6

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense, make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.”
— Jesus Christ, Matthew 23: 14-15

Did Jesus condemn anyone with more contempt than those he labeled as hypocrites? One of his most famous admonitions is, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone” — another example of his condemnation of duplicity.

Of course, he reserved his greatest contempt for the Pharisees, the corrupt high priests, who preached chastity, morality, and humility, but who in actuality were thieves who cared mostly for their own well being instead of the poor, the widows, the children, and the faithful.

In Matthew, Chapter 23, Jesus repeatedly damns the Pharisees as hypocrites, fools, and liars. Considerable debate lingers as to what Christ meant by his condemnation — was it simply a “family feud” among Jews or a great schism that signaled the new way of the world? One thing is clear, however; Jesus was attacking the status quo — the hierarchy of the church — because of its commitment to the adornments of the temple rather than to the tenants of faith. “For you pay the tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith,” he said.

So the Pharisees, Jesus said, were the rich and the powerful and righteous who ignored the most important moral values that should guide everyone: the values of justice and mercy and faith. They were fools and foolers, and those who followed them were blinded by their own piety.

This sounds achingly familiar today. The complaints that the religious right has lost all sense of moral values — that it has a blind and foolish piety in its endorsement of torture, killing of innocent civilians in the name of finding a new proselyte, and ravaging of the Earth even as it is the great giver of life — are not new charges. And they are also true. Yet the real message of Christ was that hypocrisy will be condemned, and that those who practice it will face the perils of Hell.

In politics, hypocrisy is legal tender. One can find it spent in abundance on both sides. But it is a religious expression of hypocrisy — what outraged Jesus the most — that's found in people like the Pharisees of his day and the radical reactionaries of today. Their cloak of morality, and their ostentatious embrace of Jesus, are what is so hypocritical. They claim Jesus while supporting policies that hurt the poor, the widows, the orphans, the children, the veterans, the troops, the nation, the Earth — and yes, the gays and other outcasts — the lepers, if you will. At the same time they voted for a man who instituted a tax cut that most benefited the wealthiest 1 percent among us; a man who plunged the nation into staggering debt and forced cuts in programs that support poor children, highways, veterans, troop pay and support (and levy maintenance, by the way). They crow about morality, and piety and virtue, while they support a war based on false intelligence and at best, gross mistakes of judgment.

Why? It’s mostly because they condemn gays and abortion.

Of course, abortion is a difficult question, and one that legitimately divides people, but here is the key — the right, clothed in its garments of morality and chastity, claim that because of this one issue, it holds the right to moral sway of all issues. One hears many of them claim that those on the other side are more than wrong, they’re evil.

Satan is the great deceiver of mankind. Hypocrisy is the great deceiver of the individual. The religious right says the evil lies on the left, yet it is the right that is displaying many of the hypocrisies that Jesus warned against. If they believe what they say, they’d better be careful.

Jesus said, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which do indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanliness.”

Could it be that the very hypocrites that Jesus warned against are in our midst?

[Whyte Byrd]

Originally Posted by lilypad

Jesus was a true radical with brilliant ideas and of course the original founder, but Paul I believe was the one responsible for keeping this new religion alive.

Hmmm This might seem like I'm nit-picking but I believe that acclaim goes to God himself. Everyone else is just a vessel for His Will.

What is Christianity, for me, can be summed up this way; Salvation through and a personal relationship with Christ. That has a lot of meaning for me.

[chasingclouds]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

Are we supposed to vote against our convictions? Would you ever vote for something you personally believed was wrong because society said it was right? Are Christians now supposed to just go into the closet when it comes to politics? By the way, the first amendment gave us freedoms that the government cannot take away. Here is the first amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Jefferson letter was to reassure this pastor that the government was not going to interfere with church business, which is why IRS tax codes are wrong as it intimidates churches into being silent on political matters.

Your convictions are wrong, when it comes to Christianity, I have provided links for you to scripture and analysis by theologians and preachers proving you wrong. Being gay is wrong you say? So in the same passage (which actually was not translated right into english and was supposed to say not GAY people but people that had orgies)--that would be gay or straight people, and prostitutes. They also say you are unclean for weeks after having a child and all sorts of other things that was jewish law at the time, that is not taken serious now. Are you jewish? Do you follow jewish law from back then? Also, Sodom sins was not homosexuality, but inhospitality.

Follow all the links I have left with you which proves you are wrong, ignoring the teachings of christ and have become the very thing you are against, evil. You are not loving your neighbor. God loves all his children and it is not up to you to pass judgment to say otherwise.

I suggest you start here Whosoever: God's Promises
then get on your knees and ask for forgiveness.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by chasingclouds

Your convictions are wrong, when it comes to Christianity, I have provided links for you to scripture and analysis by theologians and preachers proving you wrong. Being gay is wrong you say? So in the same passage thy also say you are unclean for weeks after having a child and all sorts of other things that was jewish law at the time, that is not taken serious now. Are you jewish? Do you follow jewish law from back then?

Follow all the links I have left with you which proves you are wrong, ignoring the teachings of christ and have become the very thing you are against, evil. You are not loving your neighbor. God loves all his children and it is not up to you to pass judgment to say otherwise.

I don't believe in passing judgment on my neighbors. They can behave immorally if they desire, which is their choice. We are called to make a difference in society and voting is one of the vehicles we have in US. So when a proposition or some other law comes up for voting, I'm going to vote based on Biblical morality. When I'm voting this way, I'm not making a statement that I am perfect or above everyone else. I'm just voting in a way that honors God. Apparently those who don't follow Christianity would prefer if we just went into our closets and stayed there. Well...that is not what God has called us to do. We need to address the issue of sin in ourselves and in society.

[chasingclouds]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

I don't believe in passing judgment on my neighbors. They can behave immorally if they desire, which is their choice. We are called to make a difference in society and voting is one of the vehicles we have in US. So when a proposition or some other law comes up for voting, I'm going to vote based on Biblical morality. When I'm voting this way, I'm not making a statement that I am perfect or above everyone else. I'm just voting in a way that honors God. Apparently those who don't follow Christianity would prefer if we just went into our closets and stayed there. Well...that is not what God has called us to do. We need to address the issue of sin in ourselves and in society.

Your convictions are wrong, when it comes to Christianity, I have provided links for you to scripture and analysis by theologians and preachers proving you wrong. Being gay is wrong you say? So in the same passage (which actually was not translated right into english and was supposed to say not GAY people but people that had orgies)--that would be gay or straight people, and prostitutes. They also say you are unclean for weeks after having a child and all sorts of other things that was jewish law at the time, that is not taken serious now. Are you jewish? Do you follow jewish law from back then? Also, Sodom sins was not homosexuality, but inhospitality.

Follow all the links I have left with you which proves you are wrong, ignoring the teachings of christ and have become the very thing you are against, evil. You are not loving your neighbor. God loves all his children and it is not up to you to pass judgment to say otherwise.

I suggest you start here Whosoever: God's Promises
then get on your knees and ask for forgiveness.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by chasingclouds

Your convictions are wrong, when it comes to Christianity, I have provided links for you to scripture and analysis by theologians and preachers proving you wrong. Being gay is wrong you say? So in the same passage thy also say you are unclean for weeks after having a child and all sorts of other things that was jewish law at the time, that is not taken serious now. Are you jewish? Do you follow jewish law from back then?

Follow all the links I have left with you which proves you are wrong, ignoring the teachings of christ and have become the very thing you are against, evil. You are not loving your neighbor. God loves all his children and it is not up to you to pass judgment to say otherwise.

I suggest you start here Whosoever: God's Promises
then get on your knees and ask for forgiveness.

Thank you for providing those links but all I've seen was a twisting of Scripture when the Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin as with adultry, fornication, and all others. This is why our nation is having all the problems it's facing today:

Romans 1:18-32
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

[chasingclouds]

I hope you are aware that your voting the way you do caused abortion to go up under Bush. Bush cut services to women which made it go up. Stop letting these yahoo con-men con you into war, killing millions of people and CHILDREN on their single issue lies like abortions and homosexuality. I will pray for you, but I suggest you get on your knees and ask for forgiveness yourself.