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Faith in Christ never brought about a sad funeral. Living with a Christ-like love for others can be one of the most rewarding experiences a man or woman can know.
Tell this to all the people who died trough the years because of Christianity. And no I didn’t mean for Christianity. BECAUSE OF CHRISTIANITY.
Faith is fairly singular and unique to Christianity. Not to be confused with "belief", as "faith" encompasses so much more and requires so much more from its adherents. The early fathers, perceiving that this new faith would be much needed to keep its growing followers in the ensuing persecutions, Paul especially pushed the concept. In fact, Paul is actually the real author of "Christianity" as we know it today. Jesus was a true radical with brilliant ideas and of course the original founder, but Paul I believe was the one responsible for keeping this new religion alive.
Jesus was a "radical"? Huh? How so? What, exactly, was "radical" about Jesus and his teachings.
Understand that he was God, coming to man as a man.
So I guess Christians should never speak out against immorality and other societal wrongs because we are sinners? We should just keep quiet and allow immorality reign in our society because who are we to dare speak up about it?
Please define, with examples, exactly what a Christian considers to be "immorality".
I don't believe in passing judgment on my neighbors. They can behave immorally if they desire, which is their choice. We are called to make a difference in society and voting is one of the vehicles we have in US. So when a proposition or some other law comes up for voting, I'm going to vote based on Biblical morality. When I'm voting this way, I'm not making a statement that I am perfect or above everyone else. I'm just voting in a way that honors God. Apparently those who don't follow Christianity would prefer if we just went into our closets and stayed there. Well...that is not what God has called us to do. We need to address the issue of sin in ourselves and in society.
How involved was Christ in the causes of his day?
What did he say about governance and the law?
God never told people to vote that I remember.
His pronouncement was to turn the other cheek. If we actually HAD an enemy who ATTACKED us, would we, as good Christians say 'Here, take the country'?
How about giving our cloak to the stranger. This, to me, means we should have open borders with Mexico and actually offer them all the advantages of citizenship.
From what I can see, there are many ways in which liberals are much more Christian than those who apply the name to themselves. Liberals have compassion for the poor and downtrodden, the very people Christ preferred. Liberals would give healthcare to the ill. Christ-like, no? He did not preach, primarily to those who were wealthy, had good lives with which they were happy, had great families. He came to those who needed help, who were poor and ill and rejected by society. The only thing I can remember that he did that I disagree with was when he cast the demons into pigs. Pigs are very intelligent.
I don't think there is actually a way to be an ERNEST Christian and keep our country.
I do NOT think we can afford to vote or legislate based on actual Christian principles.
We rule based upon what is just to ALL peoples, and do it within the restraints of practicality.
Look at Paul and the idea that marriage is better than burning. So, if you cannot keep it zipped, marry, but marriage in itself should be discouraged and only used IF you are about to do something that would land you in Hell.
We should mourn at marriages, then?
Marriage should be viewed as an indication of how weak the marital partners are.
Gee, doesn't sound like FAMILY values to me.
I KNOW Christians don't mourn weddings, but this is just an indication that we are interpreting the scriptures and NOT taking them literally.
I think we should be very careful when we choose to rule/vote on the basis of religious principles.
I think some of those principles were often ways to stay mentally healthy in days when there were no mental health practitioners. Not envying or coveting frees the mind. Not working yourself and hirelings without time off to smell the roses is eventually self-defeating. Not sinning, however you define it, was a way to help your individual soul, your salvation. You do not help your neighbor by closing the local tavern, but by convincing him that overdrinking is not good for HIM and helping him when he is weak.
In a country where gun ownership is legal, the solution to murders is NOT to ban guns, but to provide an environment and mental health assistance so that people do not resort to killing each other as individuals.
Look at our drug laws. Do they in any way limit use by people who crave them? I think not. The thing is, if they were legal perhaps we would have fewer drug deaths and most CERTAINLY there would be less of a financial incentive in dealing with them. I don't think our present laws are really doing anything to discourage use, they just make sure more people are making more money from it and corrupting our town officials and police in many cases.
No, the principles of Christ are not meant for legislation, but are meant to be applied personally, to make us stronger as individuals.
When you think of it, even the proscriptions against sex may have been meant just to prevent kids from being born who were not wanted. We may have other choices now. Sorry, I know you are probably upset by that.
Oh, and there have been comments that Christians are hated by others. No, what is not welcomed is Christians trying to change government to suit religious standards. It is not the Christians that are hated, but what they try to do to others.
Last edited by goldengrain; 11-17-2008 at 07:39 PM..
We hit a peak in 1980 and have declined quite a bit since then. Isn't that a huge sign of social progress, rather than regression, considering that this dip in the murder rate represents thousands of saved lives per year?
Yes - and there is a correlation between the increase in legal abortions in the seventies and fewer unwanted babies who would be troubled teens now, teens who used to create the majority of the crimes.
If I may, in closing, part of the hypocrisy of our land is when a non-believer uses Biblical passages to argue.
It is also hypocrisy to judge that another person is a non-believer. There are many Christians with conflicting views.
I do not believe God created us as individuals to have us march in lockstep to a tune written in a book by early tribal peoples. We, in a democracy, are to vote what we believe is best. If we abrogate our God-given thought process to someone's interpretation of an interpretation of texts that were not even written or dictated by a worshiped deity, we are probably not doing God's will, though we may find comfort in our numbers and fellowship.
I don't know but these type of Christians is enough to make one turn atheist. for sure. Hey OP I hope you saw my reply to your rant accusing me of being gay and trying to justify my lifestyle.. if not. let me clear it up.. Im straight and married for 20 years. The southern baptist church are the nastiest group of folks I have ever met. I was raised it, when I was about 5 the sunday school teacher asked me if I had gone to another church, I told her yes the Methodist church next door with my grandmother (who is the most christian woman I have ever met to this day, in faith and works), she then told me that church was no good, they were devil worshiping, twisting the scripture and were going to hell. Sounds alot like what I have been told in this thread, in fact.
Yeah. When I was a kid I was sent to a Baptist church.
My little friends in public school were Catholic and Jewish.
Was I ever shocked when I found out they were both going to hell!
And I was also smart enough not to believe it.
It lowered the church in my eyes and did nothing to discourage my friendships.
It was the first time I confronted prejudice and what I even now think of as real evil - in my own church - what a disgrace.
After that I could not wait 'till I reached the age when my parents told me I could decide my own religious fate. I read the few books of comparative religion from our library when I got a bit older. I believed, but by that time had put aside any religion associated with the old and new testaments. I had learned to discern what was good and healthy in what I was taught in church from what was silly or extreme.
Jesus may have been a good guy, but none of us really know what he said or did, having only writings based on copies which probably contain embellisments and rumors.
God is NO-THING. So you could say God is nothing, but all decent and honorable civilizations, even your behavior, is based on a belief in a supreme being.
Maybe instead of being so defensive, you might listen, read, and wonder about the awesomeness of the universe. I don't know how big it is or how majestic it might be, but I reflect back to December 24, 1968 as three men circled the Moon reflecting on their personal experience.
Please note, I don't and won't condemn you. It's not my job, nor my place, or right to condemn you, but I wonder, are you condemning yourself? You don't need to answer to me, but you best look in the mirror and wonder. I won't be pulling you up, nor down, just want you to have the option to choose, but choose you must do. If God doesn't exist, you haven't lost, but what if God does exist? What will you do, what will you do?
As some of us are born with a great talent for picking up different languages, some of us may have different inherent abilities to sense a God. That does not make them better than the others, just born with a different ability.
God has many 'faces'. He shows one to a church goer and another to the scientist.
To me the scientist and the atheist are the more honest because they are rooted in reacting to and exploring the real world around us. If there is a chance of knowing God, it could only be through his works.
There are many books written, many differing ideas of what God is, what God wants, what God thinks of us. These are the ideas of people, which is why they differ from each other. But the person who delves into the laws of nature are finding out, unveiling, the true nature of God by the only real trail He has given us: his works. It is they who are revealing Truth.
Atheists, so long as they are true to themselves, honest in their pursuits, are probably doing exactly what God would have them do.
I have no reservations about the state of their immortal souls.
God is NO-THING. So you could say God is nothing, but all decent and honorable civilizations, even your behavior, is based on a belief in a supreme being.
Maybe instead of being so defensive, you might listen, read, and wonder about the awesomeness of the universe. I don't know how big it is or how majestic it might be, but I reflect back to December 24, 1968 as three men circled the Moon reflecting on their personal experience.
Please note, I don't and won't condemn you. It's not my job, nor my place, or right to condemn you, but I wonder, are you condemning yourself? You don't need to answer to me, but you best look in the mirror and wonder. I won't be pulling you up, nor down, just want you to have the option to choose, but choose you must do. If God doesn't exist, you haven't lost, but what if God does exist? What will you do, what will you do?
You're calling me defensive? Why? Simply because I don't believe in your man in the sky? You seem very defensive of him.
Condemning myself?
What if God exists, and it's the Hindu god? What will you do? What will you do?
What if God exists and it's a fish? What will you do? What will you do?
What if God exists and you were really supposed to count to 73 each day and throw salt over your shoulder to get into heaven?
I enjoy life as it is not, not flagellating myself preparing for what happens after. What good is life if you're panicking "What will I do, what will I do!"
We're all worm food in the end!
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Why? Simply because I don't believe in your man in the sky? You seem very defensive of him.
