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Old 11-20-2008, 07:31 AM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,148,490 times
Reputation: 4228

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Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
I guess you're not understanding that blacks and the elderly are also male and female and married and union members and non-white college grads, etc.???

Their votes were included in the calculations of your other examples. Their 70% and 61% yes voting made the difference, without that level of support the Proposition would have failed.
Was gonna mention the exact same thing but you beat me to it.

But I mean, come on...after his last 50 post did we really expect him to come up with a credible argument?!?

He's the example of why its so easy to persuade people in this country.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,669 posts, read 67,645,533 times
Reputation: 21263
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
I guess you're not understanding that blacks and the elderly are also male and female and married and union members and non-white college grades.???
The majority of married people in CA are under the age of 60 and are not black.

The Yes on 8 campaign quite simply had a broader coalition of support across several demographic groups.

However, I do understand the point your trying to make.

Quote:
Their votes were included in the calculations of your other examples. Their 70% and 61% yes voting made the difference, without that level of support the Proposition would have failed.
I would like to point out that Prop 8 also passed soundly among all voters age 30-44 and 45-64.

Also, most elderly dont have children under 18 yet 64% of voters from that segment also supported prop 8.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,669 posts, read 67,645,533 times
Reputation: 21263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
But I mean, come on...after his last 50 post did we really expect him to come up with a credible argument?!?
Apparently my argument resonated with voters on November 4th.

In 3 states at that.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:22 AM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,148,490 times
Reputation: 4228
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Apparently my argument resonated with voters on November 4th.

In 3 states at that.

That's not an argument. That's a fact.

And look at all the backlash it caused. It will mean financial losses for businesses who supported it, it alienated a portion of the church, and it could cause ramifications from the government on the Mormon church. Congratulations...

But wait, the prop will eventually be overturned, and when it does it will probably be made in many more states that it might have never had a chance in for a very long while.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,669 posts, read 67,645,533 times
Reputation: 21263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
And look at all the backlash it caused.
A backlash only by gays and the ultra left. Most Americans probably agree with me.

Quote:
It will mean financial losses for businesses who supported it
People shouldnt give money to causes they believe in for fear of retribution?

Quote:
it alienated a portion of the church
This is not exclusive to the Mormon Church.

Quote:
and it could cause ramifications from the government on the Mormon church.
In other words, if a religion speaks out on an issue that is directly related to its core beliefs, the government will investigate that church?

Quote:
But wait, the prop will eventually be overturned
The primary case thy are trying to make is that amending the constitution should have been done by the legislature and that is absurd.

The CA State Supreme Court is going to be much more careful in overturning the will of the voters this time around.

Otherwise, they would have ruled already.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:13 AM
 
1,862 posts, read 3,346,825 times
Reputation: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOrocks17 View Post
This is just opening a door..whats next after gay marriage is approved? Adults marrying children? People marrying farm animals? Why not? after all...people will say that since gays can marry...why not some 40 year old man marrying a 12 year old girl?
Quit with the silliness. It's lame.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:19 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,685,627 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOrocks17 View Post
This is just opening a door..whats next after gay marriage is approved? Adults marrying children? People marrying farm animals? Why not? after all...people will say that since gays can marry...why not some 40 year old man marrying a 12 year old girl?
A child cannot consent to a marriage
A farm animal cannot consent to a marriage

Two adults can.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:24 AM
 
1,364 posts, read 2,920,420 times
Reputation: 813
Established rights should not be put up to a public vote, though. This is exactly why we are a representative democracy, among other things - our forefathers rightly feared "mob rule". Civil rights should be left up to the courts and the courts alone.

The California Supreme Court determined unequivocally that, under the Californian constitution, gays had the right to marry. So "the voters" circumvent the Supreme Court by amending the constitution to disallow gays this right. That's messed up, and Californians should be absolutely ASHAMED that their constitution was manipulated in such a manner.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:27 AM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,347,451 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
I just have one question...how did these religious right-wing nuttos even bring so much power in the first place?

Ca voters are conservative voters ?

Which ethnic group voted in large numbers against it?

Thats why you and I always disagree as you see things through rose colored lenses which refuse to blame Dems .


ONLY politician in all of CA ocean of Dem congress-Senate to want the courts to rule for gay marriage or at least look at is a Rep named Arnold actually Jerry Brown also but not any other Dems.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
754 posts, read 1,450,454 times
Reputation: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
I guess you're not understanding that blacks and the elderly are also male and female and married and union members, non white, and non-white college grads, etc.???

Their votes were included in the calculations of your other examples. Their 70% and 61% yes voting made the difference, without that level of support the Proposition would have failed.

It's funny that I have to point this out to you? But then you are a supporter of it.
It's amazing how easily manipulated the No on 8 side has been. I want you to think about what you're saying. In a state full of 36 million people 6.7% of whom are Black, 70% White, 35% Latino and 12% Asian. The fact that you honestly believe that this 6.7% had the power to decide the outcome of anything, is stupid. Even if 100% of Blacks not only went to the polls to vote but also voted for this Prop, it still wouldn't have been the deciding factor for this Prop. People are so blinded by their emotions that they're not thinking clearly. The fact that Bill O'Reily jumped on this should in and of itself tell you to question the validity of not only the numbers (70%) but also what it actually means. Seriously, have you actually thought about the actual numbers? Or are you blinded by the 70%?

Just trying to get you to THINK!!!!
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