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Well I don't think not having unions will make us a communist. If that were so, then we were communist before the unions came around years ago.
Besides, we have all kinds of laws that protect workers today. I've seen more people just go out and get a lawyer to do the job for them. And the lawyer doesn't expect to get more money after they have completed thier job like the union. And the lawyer did a lot better job than the union did too. Now I do have to admit that the union was needed years ago when the big corperations would walk all over the little man. But now they (the union) have gotten as greedy as the corps are and have out lived thier usefulness. Again we have laws to protect us and if you don'y like where you work? Go some place else.
Just trying to make you think of things a little differently. Seriously, what's your law going to read like? "People of the same trade may not congregate nor bargain together with other institutions"?
What you're proposing is in stark contrast to a free market. A free market relies less on government oversight and more on competition. Taking away a natural part of the free market and replacing it with lawyers and government regulation sure sounds like an authoritarian economic system to me, and I'm a Democrat!
As for whether unions existed before. You could argue they did in the form of guilds, but that would be a stretch. I would simply point out that corporations did not exist in their current state before Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad -- the court case where the Supreme Court ruled that corporations have rights not expressly granted to them by the states.
Just trying to make you think of things a little differently. Seriously, what's your law going to read like? "People of the same trade may not congregate nor bargain together with other institutions"?
What you're proposing is in stark contrast to a free market. A free market relies less on government oversight and more on competition. Taking away a natural part of the free market and replacing it with lawyers and government regulation sure sounds like an authoritarian economic system to me, and I'm a Democrat!
As for whether unions existed before. You could argue they did in the form of guilds, but that would be a stretch. I would simply point out that corporations did not exist in their current state before Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad -- the court case where the Supreme Court ruled that corporations have rights not expressly granted to them by the states.
Your right about that, and I won't argue the point. And we can step back a little further back in time to the " Molly McGuires" remember them?
This country needs unions. Without unions employees would have substandard working conditions and non-livable wages. The CEO's and other top management people should be the ones taking a pay cut not Joe-worker who is busting his/her butt to put food on the table. He/She are the ones who actually make the company profits and thus deserve to have benefits and decent pay.
Unions have done so much good for the workers of this nation and I hope the Bush Union-busting laws will be a thing of the past. If you don't want to be in a union than don't work at a union company. But if you do work at a union company: JOIN and PAY your DUES , don't be a freeloader! They are a disgrace to workers everywhere.
Right to Work for Less (http://www.aflcio.org/issues/legislativealert/stateissues/work/ - broken link)
my part of the Construction industry does not have unions, Yet I get paid very well, have great benefits, and wel... am doing just darn fine. Your notion that the unions are the ones that are protecting people is wrong, just look at the auto industry. Greedy unions have all but caused the collapse of the American car manufacturers. The factory's building Honda's are not unionized, and they are not doing so bad.
I'm probably going to get heavily involved in this thread, against my better judgment. This is one issue that people are immovable on, but I'm pretty passionate about it. Anyway...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncing
Unions are an element of the free market. Companies voluntarity enter into agreements with them, just like they do with other companies.
No, they don't. Check out the Railway Labor Act, the Norris-LaGuardia Act and the Wagner Act. Employers have NO SAY in whether or not employees "organize," and they CANNOT replace them for doing so. There is no "voluntarily entering into agreements" with unions. Unions hold the employer by the throat and squeeze ungodly wages and benefits, well above the value of the work being performed out of them.
The unions were created when they were really needed, and they've done a lot of good work, but they are nothing but leeches sucking the life out of our companies and our country now. Today, they exist only to enrich their upper echelon of management, and to do that, they must continue to justify their existence to their members. This can only be done by getting more and more for their members, without the members having to give anything in return.
I still think you shouldn't be forced to join a union. That should not be a pre-requisite for a job.
Don't take employment at a Union company then. It's not fair to unions when they are required by law to defend freeloaders. There are plenty of non-union companies to work for if you don't like unions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma
my part of the Construction industry does not have unions, Yet I get paid very well, have great benefits, and wel... am doing just darn fine. Your notion that the unions are the ones that are protecting people is wrong, just look at the auto industry. Greedy unions have all but caused the collapse of the American car manufacturers. The factory's building Honda's are not unionized, and they are not doing so bad.
You only get paid well because UNIONS have fought for your rights for many years. Even non-union employees benefit from the higher wages and better benefits that unions have maintained for their workers..........non-union companies have to compete with the union wages or everyone will either vote the union in or leave for a union company. Next time you see a union man in your trade you should thank him for your quality of life.
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Seriously, what's your law going to read like? "People of the same trade may not congregate nor bargain together with other institutions"?
