Can gays respect religious hetero's? (regime, radical, how much, Jesus)

[geos]

Originally Posted by JeffreySH

Of course, it's just as easy to repeat that in reverse.

Got it?

Homosexuals aren't oppressing Christians, got it? We're not trying to prevent you from marrying who you want, got it?

[artsyguy]

Most Christians are feeble minded and weak people.

Originally Posted by Kele

It does indeed.

And because the overly-religious "bash the gays in the name of Christian love" folks on this board will never have any respect for the gay and lesbian community, why should the gay and lesbian community be accountable to be respectful toward them?

Ya gotta give it to get it.

[R.J. MacReady]

Originally Posted by artsyguy

Most Christians are feeble minded and weak people.

There are good people on both sides. I know that bad experiences in real life and on these boards can make you think most Christians are bad but there are a ton of really good Christians who are on our side and are good quality folks. These statements only do damage.

[harborlady]

RJ and it's my suspicion that those actions are deliberate manipulations. Whisper like a birdie in someones ear and set people off like tops attacking one another.

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by R.J. MacReady

I saw the reply before getting ready to go out and be with friends tonight so will answer quickly but not with the time I'd like to respond. You made some heavy assumptions in your post. I am Lutheran and have a solid understanding of religion and the bible. If the cartoon I posted hit a nerve all I have to say is that it directly applies to a percentage of the 'Christian' posters here and do not have any remorse posting such an image as it makes a fair point (although it is over the top at the bottom). I will call out people on both sides---the religious side and the gay side. You can browse my posting history and will see I have done just that. Yes I have met plenty of deeply rooted religious folks. Some of them are my good friends. Many religious people I've come into contact are good citizens and quality individuals. But the truth is that there are some deeply rooted religious folks who are plain mean and nasty with how they view others and things they do in their lives. I'll say it again and again......there are bad people on both sides (religious and gay) and I have a strong issue with the Christians on here who can't admit that there are fellow Christians that are horrible people. There are some Christians that go to church every week, preach constantly from the bible, but also spew hate, ignorance, and do nasty things in their lives while using the bible to justify their actions. To be objective you need to admit there are bad people in every group of people and every subsegment of society......something many bold Christians will not do at any costs but will not hesitate to call the gay side out and make it seem like every gay person is evil, does horrible things, and will judge them unfairly. They have no issue blasting the gay side but won't touch the sins that Christians commit. Once again I am going out to spend time with my friends so this post may not be as well thought out as I want it to be but I wasn't going to leave without defending myself against a post that makes so many assumptions. And yes I'm somewhat cranky.......reading costant posts that belittle gay folks and making judgements against them when ignoring what fellow Christians do wrong starts to wear away at you sometimes.

I will agree with you that Christians often get it wrong. But we shouldn't be so antagonistic to each other. If you're a professing Christian, like myself, or and openly gay individual, you have elected to be known to the world as belonging to one or both of the most hated groups worldwide. Everyone who has ever expressed faith in Christ has instantly made a world full of enemies. Anyone who has come out of the closet has also instantly made a world full of enemies. And, fairly or not, we all get tagged with the actions of those who claim to be part of our respective groups.

For me, the biggest problem is the "GOD HATES ****!" guy who shows up at funerals and spews mindless hate. The word Christian means Christ-like. When the Pharisees brought the woman caught in the very act of adultery to Christ to see what he would do, Jesus said, "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone." He then began to write their sins in the dirt until they all decided to split. That's probably my favorite story from the gospel. I don't know why we would ever get away from that perfect example.

I visited my niece's church this year and I like the way they do things. They are geared to young people and a different approach to ministry. We had a homework assignment one Sunday after the morning service to send people in the area letters apologizing for all the unkind things that any Christian may have done to them in the past and asked for their forgiveness. We provided a link to a website, but didn't ask them for money, invite them to church, suggest they change any behavior, comment on issues or do anything else except apologize and ask their forgiveness.

I like the idea of taking the initiative like that. It shows leadership and that is a Christ-like trait that all believers should seek. I know when I have completed my mission here on Earth, my work will be judged. I'm not so sure that my efforts to defend traditional marriage will carry nearly as much weight as my leading by example.

[walidm]

Originally Posted by harborlady

RJ I agree and I've tried my best to point this out to people. I'm of the mind that people get so wrapped up in their position in an argument that they blind themselves to the greater reality. Willful ignorance? Fearful they might be wrong?

I believe the only way to get around the 'noisy 5%' on both sides of the arguments who do a disservice to the truth is to have each group police themselves in earnest. This means if you're going to call yourselves christians (one with the group) you're obliged to let that group representing you know what's not in keeping with christianity. Same is true for gays- if they're grasping at straws they only hurt the real message.

I also believe each side should be more aware of rogue individuals hiding under the banner of a group as if that were a reflection of the real group. Religious folks are NOT westboro baptists. Gay folks are NOT a transexual deliberately making himself ugly with a nuns habit in a parade. Were they aware of real nuns they'd see just how wrong that parody truly is relative to those who don't walk their talk. The blame assignment being misdirected is what bogs down every single one of these threads (not just gay issues, but every issue).

Americans unwilling to educate themselves to all sides of a debate wind up beating up the wrong guy. We'll either see how extremism and media are doing it to us, or we'll continue to be led by hatred.

Originally Posted by Steve_TN

Can heteros respect religious gays? Seriously.

Originally Posted by harborlady

I can, and do. I'm not so full of myself to believe I control or enforce god's will. I'll leave that between god and the individual.

So do I.

“One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license.”

P.J. O'Rourke

Responsibility is the lesson of childhood which defines adults, where you find a lack of one, you find a void in the other. Most major Religions of this Earth ascribe to a teaching where God is the Judge of men.

If free will exists and God exists, who but a Supreme Creator could harness the immense intelligence necessary to judge the pattern weaved through life by the secretive soul utilizing free will and consequences wrought? Only the conscience or one's God could hold these scales.

When one realizes Love is the most powerful force on the planet, (for those who hate, still love what they do), we are but a step closer to the realization that accepting responsibility for our thoughts will deter offense at actions in harmony with constructive Love, and isn't this closer to the tenants contained in most every major Religion?

[harborlady]

Momonkey that really warms my heart to know. My church growing up was a vastly different landscape. You need to notice, not just those westboro baptists, but even in all these gay threads; Christians aren't walking their talk. That's what gays are reacting to all along. They've been put through the ringer for centuries. The straight parents of gay children have been put through hell right along with them. There needs to be another way, and the only way I see is to leave it to god. Christendom being made hideous... especially by clergy- god's love needs to speak louder than scandals or politics. What's real and true has to shine through in all of us as individuals.

Walid it's been very difficult to be Catholic. I can't begin to tell you how sick at heart I felt watching the news about pedophile priests. Watching chicago's St Sabina hate speeches over politics last spring. It's an embarrassment to me how a Catholic Bishop in san fran was meddling in politics in cahoots with Mormons. Another priest read his congregation the riot act and refused the Eucharist unless they voted for McCain. The Pope won't chastise any of them so this means tacit endorsement? These individuals are acting less like men of god and more like power brokers. If the Pope himself decides to rip the cross off my neck for failing to vote his way I'll still be with my maker. My faith is stronger than a symbolic ornament.

We're all sinners- I accept that as fact. Christians deserve forgiveness and judge not just the same as others. What I have such a hard time with, what makes me most furious, is seeing more and more of them use the faith as a weapon of harm, which IMO is worse than any sin they're chasing in another. I don't make a habit of chasing down christians for beliefs or things they do until they harm another in gods name. As things stand, they're harming Christianity itself in the process of attacking gays politically.

[Kereczr]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

Your post makes absolutely no sense. I'm not sure what "tutoring" means in your post.

[Swampmonster]

Originally Posted by artsyguy

Most Christians are feeble minded and weak people.

Ya know,I've backed you in a few arguments,repped you when I thought your posts made sense and I've always given you the benefit of the doubt when you posted something I didn't agree with,but you are pushing it IMO with this post.Don't make me another person that your BS has caused them to ignore you......That is an unfair BS statement that you made and you owe a lot of Christian members on here that have supported you an apology for it.

[GottaHerdOn]

I personally consider myself to be very liberal. As long as what your doing doesn't harm me personally you can worship whoever or whatever you want. Also, as a gay male aged nearly 22 in a monogamous committed relationship of nearly three years - I would like the same right heterosexual people have to get married. No one can understand how much I love my boy friend. He is my world and the most important person in my life. First I need to make a few points.

1. Someone made a comment earlier about how they don't really care what someone else loves whether it’s the same sex or an animal of some sort. That’s rather offensive, please don't compare my love to that of someone into bestiality.

2. The whole religious thing is stupid. Yes the teachings of "nearly" all churches are not gay friendly at all and are partly responsible for a whole lot of stupid and hate aimed at gay people. There is no way around that. On the same note everyone should be able to go to any religious or not (atheists) and feel comfortable. I'm sorry but the issues of me marrying Jake should not concern or make anyone uncomfortable. You don't know me, and you don't know him, and us getting married is not going to change one thing in YOUR lives.

I'm just blown away by how we are actually voting on this now. Two consensual adults in loving relationships are being denied the right to solidify that relationship in the same way as heterosexuals are allowed too.

3. A civil union is not a marriage and separate can never be equal. I don't want to tell people, yeah we're civil unioned instead of marriage. True, marriage was created as a religious practice. But since then it has became intertwined in our local, state, and federal governments with a whole lot of perks for married individuals but that conveniently not for civil unions.

4. I ask all of you to open your minds just a little. Think about how you say things, think about what is really important in life. Love is important, family is important, and happiness is important. Hate is wrong. Don't hate