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Old 11-28-2007, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,246,649 times
Reputation: 4937

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
My response is that under a new system that kind of case would basically not occur because the patient would not be spending the dollars out of pocket. A new system would have to use some scheme of rationing care and of identifying what is an acceptable minimum degree of recovery for the patient under the default level of service provided. .

In other words, the government would have the right to decide who lives and who dies - Great.

And you think the insurance companies make bad decisions!

 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,320,493 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Should we really be comparing health costs with Mexico???

Singapore is a little iffy too in my books.
It's useful to compare per capita income:

US = $44190
Singapore = $29917
Mexico = $8066

List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
In other words, the government would have the right to decide who lives and who dies - Great.

And you think the insurance companies make bad decisions!

Right, you can misinterpret it that way if you wish. The point would be to establish a floor of healthcare services and healthcare history for all Americans. That is certainly part of what is missing today. And the floor should be set pretty high relative to the rest of the world; America obviously has the technological capability of doing that. However, today there is probably too much technology chasing low-tech health conditions.

We wouldn't want to outlaw the purchasing of services that go beyond the minimum for those patients that choose to do so.

The system would have to be tweaked over time as the new entrants continue to age as they pass through the system.
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,246,649 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
This is the "Me" generation after all! They wouldn't take a second look if you were dying on the street. They will walk over your dead body.

Aren't these the same people who deny climate change? After all they think that the oil addiction is sustainable--just fight more wars in oil rich countries.
Forgive me but, the above is pure, unadulterated BS!
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,246,649 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
Right, you can misinterpret it that way if you wish. The point would be to establish a floor of healthcare services and healthcare history for all Americans. That is certainly part of what is missing today.

We wouldn't want to outlaw the purchasing of services that go beyond the minimum for those patients that choose to do so.

The system would have to be tweaked over time as the new entrants continue to age as they pass through the system.
In other words, "you" (the government) decides who to save or not -

Strange - I know of cases where someone, who was indigent, was hospitalized and treated with every medical procedure available - extraordinary treatment - the patient (who was 80 years old I believe) survived - and he did not have to pay one cent

You would have said - "opps, he is too old - pull the plug"
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,792,673 times
Reputation: 1198
What is wrong with Mexico or Singapore?

I had a surgery done in Mexico and had top notch results. Many Mexican doctors are educated in the United States.

This is why up to 500,000 or more US citizens now travel abroad, the number growing each year for medical procedures. Some health care providers and insurance are adopting their policies to reflect thie trend. So now we are starting to outsource medical care.

Nevertheless, there are some indications that some U.S. health care providers are, in fact, beginning to provide services abroad to profit from this emerging trend. A June 18 article in The Washington Post notes that some U.S. dentists, having come to grips with the competition from Mexico, have opened offices south of the Rio Grande to take advantage of the lower costs of providing services there. The University of Pittsburgh Medical Center has opened a cancer center in Ireland and a transplant center in Italy. And Johns Hopkins University has created Johns Hopkins Medicine International to tap into the international market of patients by establishing partnerships with medical facilities in Panama City, Panama; Dublin, Ireland; Beirut, Lebanon; and Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, according to a newsletter published by the Association of American Medical Colleges.

Some insurance providers are expanding their offerings in response to the trend. For example, Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina has launched a subsidiary to help U.S. patients plan trips to Thailand for lower-cost medical procedures.


But the vast majority of third-party payers do not cover non-emergency services abroad. As a result, most U.S. citizens seeking services abroad are primarily the uninsured, the underinsured or those seeking care for procedures that are not covered.

Public Citizen | Medical Tourists - On the Move and on the Rise (http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=17198 - broken link)
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
In other words, "you" (the government) decides who to save or not -

How are these decisions made in the UK or in Spain or in Germany? Maybe you should check that out instead of venting nonstop in an information vacuum. Take off the blinders.

Maybe most of those "save me in these situations" issues are decided in advance (living will types of things) by the patient him/herself as they pass through the system over time.
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:37 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,187,987 times
Reputation: 3696
Seems strange that the US government can force your children to be vaccinated for the greater good. I have heard there is a vaccination that may become mandatory for girls to prevent ovarian cancer (or something like this). In the event of a catastrophic heath event in the US, I believe FEMA has a right to quarantine and or segregate the population for reasons of health risks. So if looking at it from another perspective, one could see reasons for and against governmental control of all health care. Would this then be a civil liberties violation?
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,246,649 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
How are these decisions made in the UK or in Spain or in Germany? Maybe you should check that out instead of venting nonstop in an information vacuum. Take off the blinders.
I don't know - and frankly, don't care

I live in the United States and not Europe.
 
Old 11-28-2007, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Seems strange that the US government can force your children to be vaccinated for the greater good.

... to be allowed to enter school. Quite reasonable. Not all parents send their kids to school. They opt out of the domineering socialistic secular humanist political system.
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