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Old 12-03-2007, 08:29 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,692,112 times
Reputation: 1266

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide View Post
Maybe we should define luxury and necessity. There is a difference.
Be my guest!

 
Old 12-03-2007, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,473 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkonian View Post
I won't tell you what I honestly think of some of you, but if you care to send me one of those direct messages, I'd be more than happy to. I just don't see the point in posting my thoughts on greedy, selfish, ignorant and materialistic people on these boards as I really don't want to get banned.

Have a good night!
I'm just glad that you don't lump all of us in that category I'm tired of seeing people in other countries bash Americans because they think that we are all egotists. But clearly, I know you don't think that way. Thanks
 
Old 12-03-2007, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,473 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
I'll be glad to. There are those like my brother-in-law. who works 3 jobs to support his wife and two children. He has a learning disability that prevents him from getting a good education. These are the one's who deserve help and who truly needs it.
And the ones who don't have generous family members like you? Who helps them?
 
Old 12-03-2007, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,473 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
Be my guest!
Ok, fine.

Luxury: free or habitual indulgence in or enjoyment of comforts and pleasures in addition to those necessary for a reasonable standard of well-being

Necessity: something necessary or indispensable

Ok, so some women might argue that owning a piece of jewelry from Tiffany's is a necessity, but I don't think anyone will argue that being cared for reasonably and at a cost that won't force people to file bankruptcy is a necessity.

Transportation is borderline, but there are many urban areas that have adequate public transportation.
 
Old 12-03-2007, 08:39 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,692,112 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide View Post
And the ones who don't have generous family members like you? Who helps them?
Other people, i.e. churches, friends, local organizations. I help others who don't have families with the resources to help.
 
Old 12-03-2007, 08:43 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,692,112 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide View Post
Ok, fine.

Luxury: free or habitual indulgence in or enjoyment of comforts and pleasures in addition to those necessary for a reasonable standard of well-being

Necessity: something necessary or indispensable

Ok, so some women might argue that owning a piece of jewelry from Tiffany's is a necessity, but I don't think anyone will argue that being cared for reasonably and at a cost that won't force people to file bankruptcy is a necessity.

Transportation is borderline, but there are many urban areas that have adequate public transportation.
Not everyone lives in an urban area with clean safe transportation. Would you not consider reliable transportation to work and/or school a necessity?
 
Old 12-03-2007, 09:19 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,096,009 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide View Post
Luxury: free or habitual indulgence in or enjoyment of comforts and pleasures in addition to those necessary for a reasonable standard of well-being

Necessity: something necessary or indispensable
So if its necessary to survive, the government should be responsible for it?
If thats the case, national healthcare is out.. you dont NEED healthcare to survive unless its a catastophic situation.

You do need heat, water, food to survive, so when do I get my free food delivered and who's paying my gas bill this month when I cant pay it?
 
Old 12-03-2007, 09:29 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,850,642 times
Reputation: 9283
Back when the caveman were in their... uhhh caves? They didn't need anything to survive... however, given the laws that we have created it does STOP us from surviving as we need hunter's license, pay property taxes, etc. etc. to survive. I don't remember healthcare was part of the "necessity" to survive in any timeline... it is a luxury. You got cancer? Well, maybe its your time to go... living longer IS a luxury that not everyone has access to not the rich, not the poor, not even the religious faithful... We develop cures and treatments and last time I check when you want to see a physician in Socrates time you still had to pay... you wanted to see a shaman, you had to pay then too... it was NEVER a necessity.. am I being cold-hearted to the all ill people out there... in some ways... yes... but then its a luxury not a necessity. I could make a point that if everyone had cars, their lives would be better... should we pay for everyone to own a car?? I don't think so... the same with socialized medicine.. its nice for everyone to have.. am I going to pay for yours instead of you paying for your own... nope... Last time I check, the government did not pay for our property tax either... in fact, I am paying them...
 
Old 12-03-2007, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 2,110,473 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
You got cancer? Well, maybe its your time to go...
And there it is.

While we're at it, maybe we could just turn all the poor into food or clothes. Hey, I predict that will be a fashion trend in 50 years if we follow your line of thought.

My opinion is that as long as we live in one of the most affluent societies in the world there is no good reason for anyone to go without anything that is a basic need for human life, or left to die due to people's desire to hoard their wealth.

You can keep what you work for, and decide not to share with your neighbor, but at the end of the day, this does not represent our advanced intellectual state at all. In fact, I really think that this kind of thought is representative of a more primal biological instinct of survival than the human evolution we've accomplished.

What was the point of the industrial revolution (many inventions and machines to make life easier, better medicine to live longer) if we're just going to revert back to a feudal society?

Besides that, you can't expect to get anything from the world you live in without giving something back. Sorry, but that's the truth. If you live among others, then you have to give as well as receive, because someone else worked hard to provide something for you every day. If you live completely isolated, produce all your electricity, build your own roads, make your own tacos, etc...then you can expect to hoard all of your wealth and not give back.
 
Old 12-03-2007, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,793,866 times
Reputation: 1198
Evil, the problem with your arguments is you do not live on an island, as much as you might like to. So for example you mention cars...so if you want to buy Mrs. Evil an American made car it will cost you about $2k more on the sticker price due to health care. Same with any American products. When American jobs leave the country enmasse because they cannot afford to support health insurance for their workers due to the gross inefficiencies and profiteering flagrant in the current health system, this all affects unemployment and interest rates and economic conditions that come back to affect the Evils. As more uninsured people skip prevention and go to the ER for initial treatment, these ER expenses get passed on to the Evils in the form of insurance and tax increases. More people skipping health care adds risk to contagious diseases that the little Evils might bring home form their schools.

So even people that pride themselves on their "rugged individualism" or "the Hell with everybody else" as you prefer to frame it should have some selfish interest in changing a system that is functionally broken.
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