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Old 12-08-2008, 08:50 AM
 
3,555 posts, read 7,836,168 times
Reputation: 2346

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That title should guarantee some readership! I'm not stating it as fact, but I think we can make the argument that the "political plan" for Detroit is going to do just that. I can't take credit for originating it, that goes to CNBC's Erin Burnett (babe-O-rama!) this morning. Here are the basics;

1. Oil is in the low $40s, gas below $2/gal, well below the rate at which hybrids even approach making sense. Although the counter-argument can be made that it won't stay at this rate over the lifespan of any car sold in the current market.

2. Toyota is the preeminent seller of hybrids, but there is "anecdotal evidence" that Toyota has lost money on every Prius they've sold. Even if you had the annual report and 10K for Toyota it wouldn't break down operations to that point. Also, Prius has been on the road for over 10 years and I've never heard any credible stories about how it's "killing people" to buy replacement batteries for them. This could mean that there are not yet enough of them old enough to notice, or they're exceeding their service life, or Toyota is replacing them under a "secret warranty" program.

It's an interesting argument to have, and I think it's going to tie in with the coming demand to finally do something about gas taxes.

golfgod
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:09 AM
 
5,273 posts, read 14,512,963 times
Reputation: 5880
If we bail out Detroit (which now seems a certainty), it will be pretty much business as usual and the types of changes that are mandatory now will be slow in coming- if they come at all. And the loses in Detroit will just continue to mount. This is politics at its very worst- IMHO.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:19 AM
 
3,555 posts, read 7,836,168 times
Reputation: 2346
Yes, much better to give the money to Citi Bank so they can pay money to the Billionaire/Millionaire cabal of professional sports franchises, their corporate management who ran the trolley off the track and in their latest middle finger to American taxpayers the just announced purchase of Itineres Infraestructures the Spanish toll road operator.

I hope when we finally catch and clean these bums that they go to "big kids" jail, not any "club Fed" operation. And that their cell mates are big guys named "Bubba". And Paulson should be in there with them.

golfgod
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:40 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 14,512,963 times
Reputation: 5880
Well, I understand the argument for bail outs. I thought the bank bail out was debatable. But AIG & the auto makers I just don’t see. I have great sympathy for people losing their jobs (I’ve been lad off before), but in these cases I think it’s good money for bad. Especially when one considers they have options. This is the cheap & easy fix and I’m surprised Bush & the congressional democrats are falling for it.
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:23 PM
 
1,175 posts, read 1,782,601 times
Reputation: 1182
...so...there will be no change at all then...

Detroit will STILL make unprofitable gas guzzling cars, will still have huge entitlements to fund and will still not be able to compete with Asian car companies.

...only now the "big 3" auto makers will get a huge tax-payer funded bail-out....
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,176 posts, read 10,667,898 times
Reputation: 9645
I was a Chrysler/Ford girl for years until they started making cheap crap with a high price tag, and were unresponsive to their customers. I went with Toyotas because they had incredible quality for an inexpensive price. Now I STILL have to line Chrysler and Ford's pockets so they can continue to build and sell garbage cars (sorry, but anything run by, or 'overseen' by, a government bureaucrat will NOT MAKE MONEY) for ridiculous prices, with built in obsolescence, that fall apart and become worthless in 5 years' time.

PISSED doesn't even cover it. If I ran a business that way, I'd be out of business - and I WOULD DESERVE TO BE. If they can't give the customers what they want, then THEY SHOULD FAIL. Pity the employees? Sorry, not much pity here - union jobs with high wages, theatening strikes if they don't get their way, putting their own people in the street while the union bosses still collect their big bucks. Nope - if they want 'sympathy', it's in the dictionary, between syphilis and $&!t. Pride in their work? Back a warranty? Build a decent product? forgettaboutit. All they want is to continue their high end lifestyles while selling garbage - and forcing taxpayers to pay for it all.

For the record, NO BANK, NO LOAN Company, should EVER have been bailed out either. They made the bad loans, they KNOW what happens when you give someone with no credit and no payment history a loan. If I loan my crackhead frequent-prison-flyer idiot brother money, and I don't get it back, why should I expect YOU to pay it instead?

I am completely disgusted. Hey, guys, I just started my own business and don't know WTF I'm doing. Give me 20% of your income, OK? I gotta pay my bills, y'know! Why should I suffer from my own mistakes? Why shouldn't you suffer them for me instead?

Sheesh. What a crock of gahbahge.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: The Midst of Insanity
3,219 posts, read 7,070,453 times
Reputation: 3286
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
I was a Chrysler/Ford girl for years until they started making cheap crap with a high price tag, and were unresponsive to their customers. I went with Toyotas because they had incredible quality for an inexpensive price. Now I STILL have to line Chrysler and Ford's pockets so they can continue to build and sell garbage cars (sorry, but anything run by, or 'overseen' by, a government bureaucrat will NOT MAKE MONEY) for ridiculous prices, with built in obsolescence, that fall apart and become worthless in 5 years' time.

PISSED doesn't even cover it. If I ran a business that way, I'd be out of business - and I WOULD DESERVE TO BE. If they can't give the customers what they want, then THEY SHOULD FAIL. Pity the employees? Sorry, not much pity here - union jobs with high wages, theatening strikes if they don't get their way, putting their own people in the street while the union bosses still collect their big bucks. Nope - if they want 'sympathy', it's in the dictionary, between syphilis and $&!t. Pride in their work? Back a warranty? Build a decent product? forgettaboutit. All they want is to continue their high end lifestyles while selling garbage - and forcing taxpayers to pay for it all.

For the record, NO BANK, NO LOAN Company, should EVER have been bailed out either. They made the bad loans, they KNOW what happens when you give someone with no credit and no payment history a loan. If I loan my crackhead frequent-prison-flyer idiot brother money, and I don't get it back, why should I expect YOU to pay it instead?

I am completely disgusted. Hey, guys, I just started my own business and don't know WTF I'm doing. Give me 20% of your income, OK? I gotta pay my bills, y'know! Why should I suffer from my own mistakes? Why shouldn't you suffer them for me instead?

Sheesh. What a crock of gahbahge.
You get all my rep points for the day!
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:10 AM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,464,598 times
Reputation: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Cells View Post
...so...there will be no change at all then...

Detroit will STILL make unprofitable gas guzzling cars, will still have huge entitlements to fund and will still not be able to compete with Asian car companies.

...only now the "big 3" auto makers will get a huge tax-payer funded bail-out....
Could you please show me where you got the information about SUVs not being profitable?
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:46 PM
 
Location: South Central PA
1,565 posts, read 4,302,793 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgod View Post
That title should guarantee some readership! I'm not stating it as fact, but I think we can make the argument that the "political plan" for Detroit is going to do just that. I can't take credit for originating it, that goes to CNBC's Erin Burnett (babe-O-rama!) this morning. Here are the basics;

1. Oil is in the low $40s, gas below $2/gal, well below the rate at which hybrids even approach making sense. Although the counter-argument can be made that it won't stay at this rate over the lifespan of any car sold in the current market.

2. Toyota is the preeminent seller of hybrids, but there is "anecdotal evidence" that Toyota has lost money on every Prius they've sold. Even if you had the annual report and 10K for Toyota it wouldn't break down operations to that point. Also, Prius has been on the road for over 10 years and I've never heard any credible stories about how it's "killing people" to buy replacement batteries for them. This could mean that there are not yet enough of them old enough to notice, or they're exceeding their service life, or Toyota is replacing them under a "secret warranty" program.

It's an interesting argument to have, and I think it's going to tie in with the coming demand to finally do something about gas taxes.

golfgod
Hint: Tax gas, tax rebate for hybrids. Cost problem solved. Gas costs rises so people buy hybrids.

The whole gas problem isn't just economic but even more a national security matter. Our large consumption of oil raises the price so Venezuela (a large exporter to the US) and other countries that export oil to the world make more money.
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:59 PM
 
Location: New York
1,999 posts, read 4,987,007 times
Reputation: 2035
Default more freedom down the drain

Obama will surely raise federal gas taxes to force you to buy the cars that the superior liberal think tank thinks you should be driving.

Now with the government owning the big three that can do as they please and profits are not a concern as the moronic taxpayers will cover all losses and are not even likely to bahhhhh.
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