U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-10-2008, 02:08 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,592,124 times
Reputation: 4250

Advertisements

I saw this program a couple of days ago. Has anyone seen this documentary?

As one of the directing trainers for the Navy SERE program said, in our policies at guantanamo George W. Bush have literally given the rest of the world the permission to torture American soldiers, with no adherence to the Geneva convention. What we have dealt out to the prisoners at Guantanamo, will be returned to our soldiers in kind.

The brave military officers and lawyers, who so opposed this torture, are what I'd always believed were the strength of the US. How sad that Bush et al threw it down the drain.

I had no idea as to the depth of the Bush admin's contempt for our Constitution. He should be ashamed.

I can only hope that Senator Obama can do something to change that perception and reality of us around the world.

We have practically destroyed ourselves. No foreign terrorists, no ridiculous "domestic terrorist" groups, nothing but the Bush administration to put the final stamp on our reputation. Like Nixon, he too feels he is above the law. It is just so very sad.

torturingdemocracy.org
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-10-2008, 04:27 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
12,780 posts, read 9,363,080 times
Reputation: 5940
No group that actually would capture a US soldier adheres to a no torture policy.

Put it this way. Would you rather be a prisoner of the US or Al Qaeda?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
21,093 posts, read 11,420,482 times
Reputation: 8508
So, then -

It's a good thing when we lower ourselves to the level of Al Quaeda?

We should always seek out the lowest common denominator to use as an example of how we should act?

Got it. Thanks for the explanation.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 13,221,942 times
Reputation: 2130
Wow... What happened? Who let the ___ out of school? The people at Gitmo behind the bars want to hurt anyone who disagrees with them. They were captured attempting to destroy civilization for millions of Afgan's by incurring exactly what you hate about America. Think about it. You who support Muslim extremists in any way are doing what you incorrectly complain about GWB, but they are doing it without any check points.

I mean dah, your anger has so blinded you that either you are the enemy or you are a fool.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 13,221,942 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBee View Post
I saw this program a couple of days ago. Has anyone seen this documentary?

As one of the directing trainers for the Navy SERE program said, in our policies at guantanamo George W. Bush have literally given the rest of the world the permission to torture American soldiers, with no adherence to the Geneva convention. What we have dealt out to the prisoners at Guantanamo, will be returned to our soldiers in kind.

The brave military officers and lawyers, who so opposed this torture, are what I'd always believed were the strength of the US. How sad that Bush et al threw it down the drain.

I had no idea as to the depth of the Bush admin's contempt for our Constitution. He should be ashamed.

I can only hope that Senator Obama can do something to change that perception and reality of us around the world.

We have practically destroyed ourselves. No foreign terrorists, no ridiculous "domestic terrorist" groups, nothing but the Bush administration to put the final stamp on our reputation. Like Nixon, he too feels he is above the law. It is just so very sad.

torturingdemocracy.org

You sound like a child who has been disciplined by a loving parent. OUR ENEMIES have no rights! I am reminded of Chamberlain trying to appease Hitler in 1937 & 38. The only thing an aggressor understands is pain and hard hitting pain at that. I don't give a darn about how our enemy nations or groups care about us. It's our friends and my family that I worry about.

Stop drinking the Kool-Ade folks... I guarantee you, that if we give plenty of tough love, they will stop the crap.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:03 AM
 
Location: South Central PA
1,562 posts, read 3,999,888 times
Reputation: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
You sound like a child who has been disciplined by a loving parent. OUR ENEMIES have no rights! I am reminded of Chamberlain trying to appease Hitler in 1937 & 38. The only thing an aggressor understands is pain and hard hitting pain at that. I don't give a darn about how our enemy nations or groups care about us. It's our friends and my family that I worry about.

Stop drinking the Kool-Ade folks... I guarantee you, that if we give plenty of tough love, they will stop the crap.
If you look at why a lot of people actually joined in Iraq and joined al-queda, a significant portion joined because of our policies with regards to captured soldier treatment (aka Guantanamo, abu graib, etc.)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:19 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,592,124 times
Reputation: 4250
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
You sound like a child who has been disciplined by a loving parent. OUR ENEMIES have no rights! I am reminded of Chamberlain trying to appease Hitler in 1937 & 38. The only thing an aggressor understands is pain and hard hitting pain at that. I don't give a darn about how our enemy nations or groups care about us. It's our friends and my family that I worry about.

Stop drinking the Kool-Ade folks... I guarantee you, that if we give plenty of tough love, they will stop the crap.
Clearly, you know nothing about the documentary, and did not even bother to check the link I posted. Therefore, you entirely missed the point of the documentary. And you entirely missed the point of my post.

Name one, just one, bit of intelligence that has come out of our government sanctioned torture of prisoners. You simply cannot do it, because there has been none.

"You who support Muslim extremists in any way are doing what you incorrectly complain about GWB, but they are doing it without any check points." What? Can you rewrite that sentence so that it makes sense?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:35 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,592,124 times
Reputation: 4250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
No group that actually would capture a US soldier adheres to a no torture policy.

Put it this way. Would you rather be a prisoner of the US or Al Qaeda?
I know that, but we are not them. We used to be above officially sanctioned torture of human beings. The documentary has many interviews with high-ranking career military who correctly point out that no reliable intelligence has ever been gotten out of torture. Ever. These are men who study intelligence gathering, and who train the soldiers who are put through the SERE school. The soldiers are taught what to expect when and if they are captured. Torture. They expect their soldiers to "break". I believe that they know whereof they speak, these career soldiers.

Not one bit of intelligence has come out of Guantanamo. I take the word of a Lieutenant Colonel who is intereviewed in the documentary. I take the word of the officer who was a supervising trainer at the SERE school. He was absolutely livid about the torture, because he knows we have no standing in rules of war any longer; we have placed ourselves on a level with the terrorists. No holds barred. and absolutely nothing has been gained from it.

The point of the documentary is that we have crossed a very dangerous line. The President is not above the law, nor is the Vice President. They are sworn to uphold treaties and the US Constitution.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 77,693,300 times
Reputation: 36290
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post

Put it this way. Would you rather be a prisoner of the US or Al Qaeda?

Al Qaeda. At least, I could hope that some day Al Qaeda will fall , and I'd be released. Or that Al Qaeda would make a token effort to find out if I was really worth keeping or not. Or that if Al Qaeda had incarcerated me, they might have some glimmer of an idea that I had actually done something to justify being held, and I would know that my captivity was hypothetically deserved. Or, if they thought I had some usefuol intel, they would find somebody who spoke my language to interrogate me, instread of having 18 year old hillbillies scraming obscenities at me in Arabic and abusing me for not giving logical, well-thought-out answers in articulate Arabic.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-10-2008 at 09:50 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:52 AM
 
4,172 posts, read 6,174,235 times
Reputation: 1204
The irony is that by adopting AQ-like values for prisioners, we continue to be less like the US and more like "them". US was one of the champions of the Geneva conventions and now W is almost championing its demise.If we continue for a decade or so (this is a long struggle), constitution-wise, we may end up looking like "Saudi-lite" and still have our "security" and "way of life". It is very simple - if you believe in our values, be prepared to uphold them.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:38 AM.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top