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Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
I can only go off of what is being reported. Her actions, as reported, in NO WAY violated subsection (1). First, she wasn't in the presence of a court. She had not entered the court.
or so near thereto
She doesn't have to be in a courtroom. She was on the courthouse grounds so it applies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
Second, she did not obstruct the administration of justice. Her misbehavior was cussing - if cussing even qualifies as a misbehavior. Saying ONE cuss word (that's what's being reported) while leaving is not an obstruction of justice.
She created a disturbance at a security checkpoint, that is obstruction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
Things like that have to be proven.
The judge can order people to jail for contempt of court. And in any case a person can be arrested and held in jail until their trial. It may turn out that they are acquitted or the charges are dropped but that doesn't mean they were wrongfully jailed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
How many cases that would have been heard that day were not heard that day because she cussed, etc, etc, etc?
Every case that was heard that day was heard because the judges and bailiffs maintain order everyday. If they didn't no cases could ever be heard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
It seems to me both the bailiff and judge were dead wrong. It also seems to be their superiors thought they were wrong since she was released 4 hours into a 10 day sentence without any subsequent hearings.
Who released her? It may not have been their superiors, it was probably the judge that ordered her in to begin with. Since order had been restored there was no more reason to hold her. She should thank Allah for such good luck and merciful judges.
She doesn't have to be in a courtroom. She was on the courthouse grounds so it applies.
Letter of the law. Being in the entryway or on the steps outside of the courthouse is not the same as being present in a court. It's just not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus
She created a disturbance at a security checkpoint, that is obstruction.
I could possibly see creating a prolong disturbance at security such that no one could enter the building as being construed as obstruction of justice. Possibly - I doubt it would stand up to scrutiny. However, that's not what she was arrested for. She was not arrested for holding up the line while arguing with the bailiff about the headscarf. She was arrested for uttering a single cuss word while in the process of leaving. Please tell me how cussing at a bailiff (who could easily ignore it) would prevent anyone from walking through a metal detector - especially to the extent that it would be considered obstruction of justice.
The bailiff clearly arrested her because he felt disrespected.
Could you imagine how different this thread would be if it wasn't a Muslim, and the bailiff did this to, say, a nun?
I personally don't think it would be different if everything happened according to the article and the nun, when told she would have to take off her habit, cursed at the guard as she was leaving. The only difference would be that instead of Democrats defending a Muslim, it would be Republicans defending a Christian. I honestly can't say the discussion would have gone any differently.
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,506 posts, read 4,280,302 times
Reputation: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
Letter of the law. Being in the entryway or on the steps outside of the courthouse is not the same as being present in a court. It's just not.
Yes it is. If she was near enough to the court to cause an obstruction of the administration of justice, which the security checkpoint certainly is, then the law applies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
I could possibly see creating a prolong disturbance at security such that no one could enter the building as being construed as obstruction of justice. Possibly - I doubt it would stand up to scrutiny. However, that's not what she was arrested for. She was not arrested for holding up the line while arguing with the bailiff about the headscarf. She was arrested for uttering a single cuss word while in the process of leaving. Please tell me how cussing at a bailiff (who could easily ignore it) would prevent anyone from walking through a metal detector - especially to the extent that it would be considered obstruction of justice.
Any type of misbehavior can be considered contempt. Officers of the courts must act quickly to maintain order. This woman should have left, then cussed. Once you are under arrest it is too late say that you will leave. The officer could ignore the law, you are correct, but then he would be in contempt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanboy33
The bailiff clearly arrested her because he felt disrespected.
That is not clear at all. It appears to me that he was just doing his job.
And it's not just for safety, it's also to help prevent the importing of drugs into the courthouse to give to prisoners. How much drugs do you think she could sneak into the building under her headress?
Funny story but my dad and mom met in the prosecutor's office and my mom went on to become a judge and my dad went on to become a defense attorney. So one of his cases was defending this guy against drug charges. On top of the drug charges he was already convicted of previously, while he was in jail he tried to have his girlfriend sneak cocaine in to him while she was visiting him in jail by hiding them in a, shall we say, "private place." They fell out and he got caught and charged with a drug crime AGAIN. That time he hired my dad and his elderly mother was convinced that the judge should let her "little innocent baby" out of jail to come home with her. My dad worked out a plea deal for him that only would have resulted in a year being added on to his original sentence but the idiot wasn't happy with that, fired my dad, hired another attorney, and got an additional five years tacked onto his original sentence. People are so dumb sometimes...
Actually, the more I read about this the worse it gets. We've been totally off base discussing whether or not her arguing and then cussing at the the bailiff is a violation of the contempt of court statute, specifically subsection (1). She actually was found in contempt under section (3). After cussing at the bailiff he handcuffed her and said that she could take the matter up with the judge. She was then hauled before the judge to apparently "take up the issue" with him. She was then found in contempt of court for wearing the headscarf in the courtroom.
In summary:
1. She take her teenage nephew to the courthouse and is denied entry because of a headscarf.
2. She argues with the bailiff about not being allowed in.
3. She follows his order not to enter, and while leaving says one cuss word.
4. The bailiff arrests her so she can "take up the issue" of headscarfs with the judge.
5. Having been hauled into court, she is found to be in contempt for wearing the headscarf.
6. She is released 4 hours into a 10 day sentence. (The ACJ says "the reason for the early release wasn’t immediately clear.")
Absolutely unbelievable. This is much worse than I originally thought.
Even if, if, the actions seemed extreme. There is a thing called making an example of, which is sometimes a necessary evil. If 50% of the people entering court tried to bend rules and disrespected court officials, the only business that would get done would be dealing with people that felt entitled and self-important.
Even if, if, the actions seemed extreme. There is a thing called making an example of, which is sometimes a necessary evil. If 50% of the people entering court tried to bend rules and disrespected court officials, the only business that would get done would be dealing with people that felt entitled and self-important.
I disagree with you, but if rules are rules, then be consistent. She'd been allowed in the same courtroom before without having to take off the headscarf. Apparently it's up to the discretion of the judge (or in this case the bailiff).
if rules are rules, then be consistent. She'd been allowed in the same courtroom before without having to take off the headscarf. Apparently it's up to the discretion of the judge (or in this case the bailiff).
I agree. I only read the one article by the op. Could be she slipped thru the cracks the previous time, could be it was a different bailiff could be that it wasnt true. Inconsistency does happen thru human error or perception. Anyhow, it best if we follow the rules and act civilly in public places.
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