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I was going to say, sounds like Russia is following our lead. Between the "Patriot Act" , Gitmo, and the way the government is able to influence what our mainstream news does and does not air or opine, we certainly should not be throwing rocks at anyone from our glass house.
That my shipmate is an unfair post. When has mainstream news ever not been allowed to ridicule our political establishment? In fact when has the media ever been forced to actually report the facts rather than their agenda?
I am a firm believer that the media can not be trusted when it comes to reporting about classified information. How many times have they reported troop movements? How many times have they distorted the facts to make a bigger story without regard for those in the field? Too many times.
This does not surprise me in the least. Putin the former KGB spy master would have it no other way.
Russians like their government (for the most part, of course) far more than do Americans.
When Putin left office, he left with an approval rating of 80% which is far higher than Bush or Clinton. Oddly, it's the Neocons in the USA that have the biggest problem with internal Russian politics, and the USA can't handle Iraq, let alone a conflict with Russia.
The Russian parties that whine, are very small. At the rallies in which Neocon propagandists blast over the Western news, these opposition groups usually rally about a thousand people or so.
I wonder if the Russians ever fret over what the rest of the world thinks about them?
I wonder too - and my guess is they fret far less than us. If they dont fret much, it may be their loss since they do not have the resources or might to go it alone and be successful in the upcoming multipolar world where reliance on power alone will be insufficient. My experience with the limited number of people in Moscow has personally been really good and this is not to imply anything derogatory about Russians. But, this is where the US does far better than Russia - by the time you look the the US citizens traveling to various countries (most Russians dont travel much internationally), the fact the Americans actually talk to the local people (English helps - people dont know much Russian), influence of Holywood movies, etc - US has a good currency built up much more so than the Russians. W's policies were extremely unpopular - but this is about to be history. If we also use non-military means at government and personal levels, talk and actually uphold our ideals and ideas, I think the US stock will go up far more. Of course, you cannot win them all.
I don't know if we in the land of "freedom to" can fully understand the mindset of people from the lands of "freedom from". Ultimately, it is a test of our imagination to do so: sit down, and really imagine how dire life would be without the "freedom froms".
Strongmen provide "freedom froms" better than do democrats (small d). Since government stability can never be more than an illusion shared by the governed (i.e.: we all buy into it), concrete expressions of power are more "believable" than the saintly acts men like Washington who had power and freely gave it up for something greater: true democracy for his nation. Americans would likely not believe in a Washington had he not actually happened, and I don't think Russians have ever had a Washington of their own (Gorbachev, amazingly enough, was close- he could have tenaciously and foolishly held onto power- even if he would have been doomed in the end. Plenty of leaders have tried to hold onto power despite their hopelessness (Saddam Hussein), and their people have always payed for it in the bloodiest of terms).
Like Otto von Bismarck who resisted social and political progress and instead gave his people a palliative of nationalism and military success (aided by the excellence of German military ability as well as the organizational mastery of the German General Staff), Putin gives his people the "freedom froms" and assuages their sense of national pride instead of giving them "freedom tos".
***
You cannot have the "freedom tos" from a people who have not undergone a grass-roots mental revolution necessary to implement and sustain it. Sadly, we are an optimistic and naive nation that believes the rest of humanity will follow our same dynamic, whereas much of the rest of humanity is more cynical and jaded. We have based too much of our foreign policy on this naive optimism.
We should have helped the Russians much more naively and optimistically - idealistically - when they were floundering around in the 90s trying to transition to capitalism. Another blown opportunity.
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4
I was going to say, sounds like Russia is following our lead. Between the "Patriot Act" , Gitmo, and the way the government is able to influence what our mainstream news does and does not air or opine, we certainly should not be throwing rocks at anyone from our glass house.
That my shipmate is an unfair post. When has mainstream news ever not been allowed to ridicule our political establishment? In fact when has the media ever been forced to actually report the facts rather than their agenda?
I am a firm believer that the media can not be trusted when it comes to reporting about classified information. How many times have they reported troop movements? How many times have they distorted the facts to make a bigger story without regard for those in the field? Too many times.
This does not surprise me in the least. Putin the former KGB spy master would have it no other way.
Shipmate I do believe that serious criticism is muzzled by the media at times
For any vigorous criticism and investigation of the Iraq War in the months prior you had to look to foreign journalism. I was disgusted by the way that in the initial attack embedded journalists were basically cheerleaders. No serious or objective journalism taking place.
We are not allowed to see pictures of the coffins coming back from the war zones. We are not allowed to see pictures of the dead and wounded in the war zones. We are given the sanitized video game version of the War. This is not helpful to the troops sacrificing over there either.
I definitely see the news organizations being directed and influenced by the government and by the corporate mogul owners like Rupert Murdoch about what they can and cannot report about.
I thought this was kind of interesting, kind of shows you the direction the are going overall:
The Kremlin also sharply restricted independent media, leaving just a few outspoken radio stations and newspapers with limited audience reach, and has curtailed the work of non-governmental groups.
this kinda sound like america, but since its russia its soooo bad
tinman01;6633143]That my shipmate is an unfair post. When has mainstream news ever not been allowed to ridicule our political establishment?
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In fact when has the media ever been forced to actually report the facts rather than their agenda?
wouldnt call it their agenda but rather political agenda. or what the cia or any other oragnization wants people to know. its been quite evident we dont get the whole truth about killings in iraq.
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I am a firm believer that the media can not be trusted when it comes to reporting about classified information.
well you should be skeptical because we are not allowed to hear about the truth. just like the whole russia vs georgia thing. we were all fed russia attacked first when that was inaccurate all media stated this but since its russia we're talking about its damn okay to manipulate americans because its russia we're dealing with.
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How many times have they reported troop movements? How many times have they distorted the facts to make a bigger story without regard for those in the field?
regarding what(facts) what about the other side of the isle which your not talking about?
Quote:
This does not surprise me in the least. Putin the former KGB spy master would have it no other way
neither would bush or even reagan who lied to americans. A MAN LIKE J EDGAR HOOVER who was thought to be a saint and the media reported hiim as a good deed was infact doing something illegal
the cia is no good either before you talk down on any other foreign intelligence look at our backyard first,
I wonder if the Russians ever fret over what the rest of the world thinks about them?
I wonder if the Americans/ Isrealis ever fret over what the rest of the world thinks about them.
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