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Old 01-04-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
858 posts, read 2,236,165 times
Reputation: 368

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetclimber View Post
If Libs want to play the conservatives want to destroy the environment card, they might want to look at their own states first. California has a vastly overdeveloped coast and interior as does NY (Long Island). If these states really cared about the environment, they would keep this development in check and preserve these coastal areas. Texas on the other hand (a conservative state) has almost the entire coast protected from development (South of Galveston all the way to S Padre) so it seems that both Conservatives and Libs are pretty equal interms of destroying the environment.
Ah sorry, California has as much coastal state parks or more than Texas. From Santa Barbara to the SF bay area is protected, and from the SF bay area to Oregon is also protected. From Orange county to San Diego county is also protected. We have much more coastal regions than Texas. Find a Park (http://www.parks.ca.gov/parkindex/default.asp?tab=2 - broken link)
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:40 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,503 posts, read 15,563,744 times
Reputation: 1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Concrete nation? Would you like to have the nation impoverished to to a lack of intelligence use of resources? It seems like it. Yes it's a forest and forests have a life cycle which entails death. As far as brainwashing goes you need to check the real experts on the wildfires. And then talk to some of the guys with boots on the ground putting those fires out. I have. The old Smokey the Bear ethic is dead and the career Forest Service employees are saying it-not allowing some fires to burn have seriously degraded the forests and have put the survival of species like the Ponderosa Pine at risk since it needs the heat of fires to release seeds for the next generation. That's why the controlled burning program has been put in place. I don't know whether you are confusing National Forests with Parks but the reason for the existence of both is different. Selective cutting of national forests is the rule. Where you see clear cutting is probably on tree farms owned by companies such as Weyerhauser, which again is the harvesting model for those areas, which may be either good or bad. The reality of cutting the mature trees is that it thins out the canopy and allows the next generation of trees to mature completely. The national forest I'm most familiar with is the Allegheny National Forest in PA. It is now being described as a wooded desert. The old growth is dying and the next generation of trees isn't there.
Tell you what, the next time someone tries to fire bomb your house because you testified against a massive development that would pave over acres of land, creating highly polluted run-off into a local waterway or have a multi-million dollar SLAPP suit filed against you, we will have something in common to talk about.
Um, I know what selective cutting is, & no I'm not brainwashed, sorry.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:47 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,190,876 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
Going to waste? How about, it's a FOREST!!!!! It's meant to be part of an ecosystem, do you know what that means? Would you prefer to have this country become a concrete nation? And there is such a thing as "selective cutting", have you heard of that? Also, "controlled burning", have you heard of that? I think you've been brainwashed by Bush w/his little ditties about why all the wildfires are started...that's his attempt at environmentalism which is really a cloak & dagger routine to push for more logging.

Being I'm one of those tree hugging conservationist types who also happens to live in some of the most rural and heavily forested regions of the Eastern United States, I do know a thing or two about forest management and land stewardship.

Many people often suggest select cutting as environmentally friendly manner of logging, but that is not always the case. One of the most important parts of any ecosystem is the soil and the soil mycelial to which all other plants and trees depend upon to survive. When you select cut, you are required to return to the same area of forest more often and usually over the same skidder roads and trails with very heavy equipment (skidders), there by disturbing and even destroying the surface layer of soil. Since you are select cutting, you do not open up the canopy of trees to much sunlight and few new young plants appear due to shade. However, when you clear cut a given tract of land, you open up the canopy to all the sunlight it will ever see and in doing so, fast growing weeds, grasses, and green stemmed shrubbery will take root and grow at a phenomenal rate due to lack of competition for soil nutrients and abundance of sunlight. The soil is then better retained by the fine network of root systems

Those clear cut tracts which quickly develop into grassy and weedy tract full of soft stemmed new grow. These weeds and grasses often offer soft mast foods for forest herbivores such as deer, rabbit and squirrels as well as a variety of foul and cover for them to breed. As the forest begins to regrow, the dynamic changes and hard wood soft mast trees such as persimmon and paw paw will grow and eventually as it further matures it will begin to have hard mast trees such as oak, hickory, and walnut which obviously bare their fruit later in the season.

I have no doubts that there are unethical logging companies and people who practice poor land stewardship, but it is in the logging companies best interest to preserve the soil in order to ensure rapid regrow for future harvest.

Unless people wish to dig dirt and live in holes or mud dobbed houses or steel structures, then you are going to have to cut a few trees down. Look around the average home and then think of what wouldn't be there if you didn't use wood. Are you sitting in the dirt yet? You could call and complain but the copper in the telephone wire had to be mined, but I suppose smoke signals work.

There is a reason forest management is a science and in my opinion an art. It can be done right or wrong, but to say it shouldn't be done at all, really?
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:03 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,503 posts, read 15,563,744 times
Reputation: 1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post

There is a reason forest management is a science and in my opinion an art. It can be done right or wrong, but to say it shouldn't be done at all, really?
I've never said it shouldn't be done, I never said that anywhere. This thread is about the Bush Administration pushing through a policy that will allow 900 miles of roads plus subdivisions in a forested area, period.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:06 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,190,876 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
I've never said it shouldn't be done, I never said that anywhere. This thread is about the Bush Administration pushing through a policy that will allow 900 miles of roads plus subdivisions in a forested area, period.
I only responded to your last post. While I have no problems with responsible logging, I would be opposed to building any residential or commercial permanent structures on national forest land.
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