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View Poll Results: What's the right thing to do in Iraq?
Just bring our troops home, and let them do what they like to each other 7 63.64%
Let's make sure (with increased force if neccessary) that a unified Iraq is the way forward 0 0%
I like this let's split them up idea. We might be onto something here. 4 36.36%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-10-2007, 03:18 AM
 
184 posts, read 879,813 times
Reputation: 140

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Interesting point of view by a returning soldier... Before we are talking about troop pull-out from Iraq, we could help set up 3 different countries along the religious/ethnic lines. Kurdistan, has been an idea before. How hard would it be, do you think, for us to help build 3 countries? They could have full autonomy and maybe once the dust is settled they could have regional, mutual trade agreements, and diplomatic relations... or am I only dreaming?

4 years, almost 3200 US soldiers dead, they are keep bombing each other and us, is it time to face realities? Gotta put an end to this... I don't think we should just leave. But is this a viable way forward?...

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660202107,00.html
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Old 03-10-2007, 04:06 AM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,393 posts, read 43,401,593 times
Reputation: 13522
Thanks for sharing the article.
I don't know how hard it would be.
The war exacerbated the Sunni-Shiite situation. Wouldn't the outnumbered Sunnis feel rather vulnerable? I really feel sorry for the Kurds no matter what.
There has to be a way for these groups to pull together.
The collective oil trust that I've read about sounds like one way. That oil, and who ends up controlling it: this will be an interesting endeavor.
Iraq does have a government. They're trying.
Here's a blog from an Iraqi citizen:
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
From the blog:
What's been going on since 2003 is that most of the neighbors want Iraq to fail and to do that they saw that feeding a proxy war using local surrogates and foreign terrorists was the best strategy to block the tide of change off their doors. In this manner the slower progress is being made in Iraq the longer their regimes can last, so why would anyone think those little tyrants like to see a democratic federal Iraq run by a constitution approved by the people!?
I am reminded of Yugoslavia. I am reminded of Northern Ireland. Rwanda. Then there was the 100 Years war with England and France.
All of these conflicts eventually came to an end, but not overnight.
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Old 03-10-2007, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,697 posts, read 3,350,563 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post
Thanks for sharing the article.
I don't know how hard it would be.
The war exacerbated the Sunni-Shiite situation. Wouldn't the outnumbered Sunnis feel rather vulnerable?
That's the problem as I see it. I believe the time to have tried the separation plan would have been four years ago, but even still- you have centuries-old factions going at each others' throats, unbalanced numbers, and instead of having them fight for the sake of fighting, you're now having them fight for the sake of fighting AND for control of the oil.

As things stand now, there is no winner except Halliburton and Blackwater.
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Old 03-10-2007, 07:01 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
67,189 posts, read 50,209,067 times
Reputation: 37938
I think we should apply what we should have learned 30 years ago, fighting for people who won't fight for themselves is pure folly. Our effort should be focused on training the Iraqis to get off their butts and fight for themselves.

We went on the premise of spreading democracy, let them decide just what they'll fight for.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Kurdistan Sine
152 posts, read 205,692 times
Reputation: 34
I don't know what u think but Kurds will separate from that countries . by force or without force . we have 35 million population . 4 times more than Iraq . is this fair that we are Turkey's , Iraq's , Iran's , Surya or even Armenia and Georgia's colony and we don't have country ?(yeah I am Kurd)
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:50 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,513 times
Reputation: 10
Kurds have the British Empire to blame for their predicament (I'm an American-Kurd,btw). However, as for the solution, I believe that the U.S. government should work towards financially assisting Kurdistan. By doing this, the Kurds with their developing economy will eventually be able to actually BUY OFF the land from the Turks, Syrians, Iranians, and Iraqis (though Iraq probably won't even be necessary since immense progress was made there thanks to the U.S). Unfortunately, there will be those who prefer a more violent "solution" to the problem, but that won't help anyone in the long run. I like the pesh-murga for fighting to protect Kurds, but I honestly think that they won't be able to officially take the land back anytime soon. As for the United States, they'll get another powerful middle eastern ally after everything plays out (similar to Israel).
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Ohio
23,436 posts, read 17,398,217 times
Reputation: 20278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungazooka View Post
As for the United States, they'll get another powerful middle eastern ally after everything plays out (similar to Israel).
What? How could you possibly even consider doing something as stupid as that?

Don't you know your own history?

As far as the united States is concerned, Kurds are useless worthless scum, totally expendable in the achievement of US goals.

If 1,000s of Kurds die, who cares? The US doesn't give a damn, so long as the US profits from the slaughter of Kurds.


Just before the 1973 Yom Kippur War between Israel and several MENA countries, the Mossad asked the Kurds to attack Iraq in order to take pressure off of Israel.


Don't you remember that?

Kissinger sent the Kurds a cable (dated October 16) stating:

"We do not repeat not consider it advisable for you to undertake the offensive military actions that Israel has suggested to you."

Since the Kurds trusted the US, they did as Kissinger asked.

At that time, the Shah (of Iran) was using the Kurds as pawns against the Iraqis for several years. The CIA knew that if the Shah and Iraq ever came to an agreement on their border dispute, the Shah would drop the Kurds like a bucket of puke. In April 1972 the Iraqis signed an FCN with the Soviet Union that gave the Soviets the right to port ships at Iraqi ports, plus Iraq received Soviet military aid and equipment (that was still in use during the Gulf War 1991).

In June, the Iraqis nationalized the Iraq Petroleum Company (of which 23.75% was US oil company assets). That is what got the ball rolling, because the Shah wanted a more prominent role in OPEC and to do that, the Shah had to deal with the Kurds to set an example for other minority groups living in OPEC member countries.

In March 1975, the Shah met with the Iraqi vice-president, and then cut off all supplies to the Kurds. The Iraqis then launched a massive offensive against the Kurds.

The Kurds sent a cable to Kissinger:

"There is confusion and dismay among our people and forces. Our people's fate in unprecedented danger. Compete destruction hanging over our head. No explanation for all this. We appeal you and USG [US Government] intervene according to your promises..."


[Note: Emphasis Mine]

Another cable to Kissinger:

"Your Excellency, having always believed in the peaceful solution of disputes including those between Iran and Ira, we are please to see that their two countries have come to some agreement...however, our hearts bleed to see that an immediate byproduct of their agreement is the destruction of our defenseless people.... Our Movement and people are being destroyed in an unbelievable way with silence from everyone. We feel your Excellency that the United States has a moral and political responsibility towards our people who have committed themselves to you country's policy.
"

[Note: Emphasis Mine]

Several hundred Kurdish leaders were killed, or captured and summarily executed. Kurdish forces suffered heavy losses. Kissinger and the US did nothing.

More than 200,000 Kurds fled Iraq into Iran, but the US and Iran refused to provide any humanitarian assistance, and also refused to allow the UN or any other humanitarian non-governmental organizations help the Kurds.

At Iraqi insistence, the Shah handed over 40,000 of the Kurdish "intelligentsia" to the Iraqis for execution.

The US government refused to acknowledge any of the events, and so refused to allow any of the 40,000 condemned, or those that remained of the 200,000 to seek political asylum in the US, even though each and every single one of the qualified for political asylum under the laws in place in the US at the time.

What's important to understand here (because it might not be readily apparent) is that the Kurds could have attacked the Iraqis at their weakest -- during the 1973 Yom Kippur War, and that the Kurds could have obtained weapons from the Soviet Union and armed themselves against the Iraqis -- but Bazrani the Kurdish leader declined the Soviet offer of weapons, because Kissinger told him not to accept them.

And the US knew that this was going to happen, because the US/CIA was telling the Shah to use the Kurds as pawns against the Iraqis.

This is what the US thinks about Kurds......

"Covert action should not be confused with missionary work."

-- Henry Kissinger

See Page 66 of this document (for the Quote) which discuses US-Kurdish History.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA341020

And yes, that's a military web-site.

How sad that I know more about your history and how many Kurds were slaughtered by the US than you do.

Ever since the united States murdered King Faisal, and then subsequently murdered General Qasim, the only thing the US has ever done to or for the Kurds is lie and break promise after promise after promise.

The US will only hang you out to dry again.

You dishonor Bazrani and every Kurd that was ever slaughtered, because the US lied to you again and again and again and again and again for the last what, 60 years now?

Jeez, does Masoud know you're posting this crap?

Not even amused...


Mircea
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:38 PM
 
31,367 posts, read 35,436,457 times
Reputation: 15003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowThruTheMoon View Post
Interesting point of view by a returning soldier...
There is a reason why we task solders to fight wars and not set policy.
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
28,200 posts, read 19,952,217 times
Reputation: 22529
And, as always, we eventually left Iraq, leaving those left behind to sort it all out for themselves.

The nation of Iraq was a British construct. Some Brit General drew an arbitrary line on the map of Iran and declared the new nation Iraq. The people who lived there have been dealing with arbitrary western interventions ever since.

Afghanistan is tribal. After we depart, they'll go back to their tribal ways, leaving their central government as weak and impotent as ever.

Some nations simply aren't built for democracy.
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:50 PM
 
47,527 posts, read 66,668,247 times
Reputation: 22408
Let them duke it out but keep them in their current borders. It might be time to do something similar to the US. All liberals should be relocated to their own section, we could split up.
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