Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Have you seen what gas is per gallon on the west coast vs MS/AL/etc? Have you seen what rent is in California vs. TN? Have you seen electric bills in TN vs. Cali?
The difference is HUGE, and to force a small town AL employer to pay $7.25 because CA does is stupid.
Jump on any cost of living comparison calculators and you will quickly see what I mean.
Example:
A person living in San Francisco making $52k a year will need to make approximately $29k per year in Birmingham to maintain the same standard of living.
Tell me how a federal minimum wage that is the same for all states would make any sense based on regional cost of living fluctuations.
That is not true. I live in a small town in SC and the minimum wage here is nowhere enough to live on. Apartments start at 400 dollars which is not to much but when you add car insurance, car repair, food, gas it is not enough
I feel sooooooo devalued reading this. I graduated high school, but cant find a job, even min wage, but when I was working at a daycare I got 5.50 an hour. I did the math and if I got 2 dollars extra an hour, it adds up to $16 a day, and if you work 5 days a week, that adds up to $320 extra a month, if you work 7 days a week, that adds up to $448 a month. With that, I could tottaly afford to get off of welfare. Everyone what works min wage jobs isnt trash, we just havent had the same opportunities.
I live in a small town in SC and the minimum wage here is nowhere enough to live on.
Did I miss the event where it was decided that Minimum Wage should be enough to live on?
The Minimum Wage is a concept created by people who think the purpose of companies is to create jobs rather than to earn money. It's hardly a surprise that most of them don't run companies.
Saw a cartoon four or five min-wage-increases ago. It showed a fast-food manager talking to his crew, seven or eight people who are gathered around him. He says:
"I have good news, and I have bad news.
"The good news is, the new minimum-wage law says I have to pay you more.
"The bad news is, I can't afford that, so two of you are fired."
-----------------------
Before minimum-wage laws became popular, you could pull into a gas station, and someone would come out and ask, "Regular or premium?" At the same time, someone else would check your car's oil and water levels, clean the windshield, put air in the tires, etc. Where are they now?
They were killed off by minimum-wage laws.
When they were doing those jobs, it was because the gas station owner had found out that, when they were working there and doing those things, more customers chose his station to buy gasoline. And enough extra customers came in, that he made enough additional profit to pay their (low) wages. So it was economically feasible for him to employ them, contributing to the purpose of the station (to earn money for the owner).
Enter the Minimum Wage. Suddenly the owner had to pay those people $8.00/hr (2008 dollars) instead of the $4.00/hr they had been willing to work for. And just as suddenly, the extra customers they brought in, no longer brought in enough profit to pay the windshield-cleaners' wages. Some raised their prices, but then found their customers started going to the place down the street that hadn't raised prices - those places had just fired the windshield-cleaners instead. Some divided their pumps into full-service and no-service, the full-service pumps having higher gas prices to pay for the extra people who worked only there. But not enough customers used the full-service pump, and the windshield-cleaners mostly sat idle. So before long, they were history. Now, thanks to Minimum-wage laws, extra entry-level workers who used to be worth employing, no longer were, and their jobs vanished.
Gone were their chances of getting bicycle money or bus fare. They now had to wait for a job (much rarer) to open up paying enought to support a car. Gone were their chances of getting an "easy" job that could give them their first experience and their first recommendation from a satisfied employer. Gone were their first chance to start developing a work ethic that would make them more likely to get a better job later.
Yes, Minimum Wage laws help people - the ones they don't fire.
Min Wage laws also help someone else: Unions. Most unions set their wage scales based on - you guessed it - the Minimum Wage. So when the Min Wage goes up, not only do the lowest-paid workers get more money, but the employer is forced to pay more money to his entire hourly-wage staff, including the most highly-paid ones. And since these employees who get more money today than yesterday, aren't bringing in any more profit today than they were yesterday, the fast-food scenario described above, applies.
Inflation is another subject. That's what you have, when the price of everything rises (goods, services, wages alike). When a company is forced to pay some or all of its workers more, while they aren't bringing in any more money than they used to, they have no choice but to raise prices. And they hope their competitors have the same problem and so can't lure their customers away. And the people buying their products find themselves paying more for no more goods, and so must raise their prices to make up. And so, prices rise everywhere, as wages rise. Sound familiar? Inflation has many causes. Minimum-wage increases are among them.
The "living wage" argument is especially ludicrous. Some people actually complain that the reason we need a higher Minimum Wage, is becausae you can't support a family of four on the (older) minimum wage.
Well, who on earth ever said you could? Or should?
This "argument" comes directly from those misguided souls who think companies exist to create jobs, not earn money for their owners. And who think that jobs exist to provide people a living, not to get work done for the company.
If you have a family of four to support, why are you working as a clerk at a stereo store, or picking apricots in an orchard? With no plans to move up to a better-paying job, get training at night school, etc.? Is it your employer's job to support your family? Or is it yours?
So much is wrong with the idea of a mandated Minimum Wage, that it takes more space tham we usually have in a forum like this. But there are a few of the high points.
The raising of the minimum wage will result in more unemployed people. There are some people that aren't worth $7 or so per hour! It really has nothing to do with compassion. The consumer isn't going to have compassion for the manufacturer that has to raise his prices to pay for the minimum wage! If there's an employee that can't do anything but push a broom, he's going to be unemployed at some point!
I work on commission. If I don't do anything, I don't make anything....and that's how it should be. People should be paid what they are worth without the government intervening.
Last edited by bugguy; 07-27-2009 at 12:36 PM..
Reason: Added script
Did I miss the event where it was decided that Minimum Wage should be enough to live on?
The Minimum Wage is a concept created by people who think the purpose of companies is to create jobs rather than to earn money. It's hardly a surprise that most of them don't run companies.
Saw a cartoon four or five min-wage-increases ago. It showed a fast-food manager talking to his crew, seven or eight people who are gathered around him. He says:
"I have good news, and I have bad news.
"The good news is, the new minimum-wage law says I have to pay you more.
"The bad news is, I can't afford that, so two of you are fired."
-----------------------
Before minimum-wage laws became popular, you could pull into a gas station, and someone would come out and ask, "Regular or premium?" At the same time, someone else would check your car's oil and water levels, clean the windshield, put air in the tires, etc. Where are they now?
They were killed off by minimum-wage laws.
When they were doing those jobs, it was because the gas station owner had found out that, when they were working there and doing those things, more customers chose his station to buy gasoline. And enough extra customers came in, that he made enough additional profit to pay their (low) wages. So it was economically feasible for him to employ them, contributing to the purpose of the station (to earn money for the owner).
Enter the Minimum Wage. Suddenly the owner had to pay those people $8.00/hr (2008 dollars) instead of the $4.00/hr they had been willing to work for. And just as suddenly, the extra customers they brought in, no longer brought in enough profit to pay the windshield-cleaners' wages. Some raised their prices, but then found their customers started going to the place down the street that hadn't raised prices - those places had just fired the windshield-cleaners instead. Some divided their pumps into full-service and no-service, the full-service pumps having higher gas prices to pay for the extra people who worked only there. But not enough customers used the full-service pump, and the windshield-cleaners mostly sat idle. So before long, they were history. Now, thanks to Minimum-wage laws, extra entry-level workers who used to be worth employing, no longer were, and their jobs vanished.
Gone were their chances of getting bicycle money or bus fare. They now had to wait for a job (much rarer) to open up paying enought to support a car. Gone were their chances of getting an "easy" job that could give them their first experience and their first recommendation from a satisfied employer. Gone were their first chance to start developing a work ethic that would make them more likely to get a better job later.
Yes, Minimum Wage laws help people - the ones they don't fire.
Min Wage laws also help someone else: Unions. Most unions set their wage scales based on - you guessed it - the Minimum Wage. So when the Min Wage goes up, not only do the lowest-paid workers get more money, but the employer is forced to pay more money to his entire hourly-wage staff, including the most highly-paid ones. And since these employees who get more money today than yesterday, aren't bringing in any more profit today than they were yesterday, the fast-food scenario described above, applies.
Inflation is another subject. That's what you have, when the price of everything rises (goods, services, wages alike). When a company is forced to pay some or all of its workers more, while they aren't bringing in any more money than they used to, they have no choice but to raise prices. And they hope their competitors have the same problem and so can't lure their customers away. And the people buying their products find themselves paying more for no more goods, and so must raise their prices to make up. And so, prices rise everywhere, as wages rise. Sound familiar? Inflation has many causes. Minimum-wage increases are among them.
The "living wage" argument is especially ludicrous. Some people actually complain that the reason we need a higher Minimum Wage, is becausae you can't support a family of four on the (older) minimum wage.
Well, who on earth ever said you could? Or should?
This "argument" comes directly from those misguided souls who think companies exist to create jobs, not earn money for their owners. And who think that jobs exist to provide people a living, not to get work done for the company.
If you have a family of four to support, why are you working as a clerk at a stereo store, or picking apricots in an orchard? With no plans to move up to a better-paying job, get training at night school, etc.? Is it your employer's job to support your family? Or is it yours?
So much is wrong with the idea of a mandated Minimum Wage, that it takes more space tham we usually have in a forum like this. But there are a few of the high points.
People stopped serving gas because gas store owners found out it was cheaper for people to pump there own gas. So it is okay for some jobs to provide a living and some not to? What are people supposed to do if they can not make enough to live on? Not everyone can find a better paying job or has the money to go to school. It is societys responsibility to make sure everyone has a place to live and food to eat. Or we could just have people dirt poor barely making it like in many foreign countries. I am sure you would okay with this since you seem to only care about yourself. It is sad to see people like this who has no compassion for others.
The raising of the minimum wage will result in more unemployed people. There are some people that aren't worth $7 or so per hour! It really has nothing to do with compassion. The consumer isn't going to have compassion for the manufacturer that has to raise his prices to pay for the minimum wage! If there's an employee that can't do anything but push a broom, he's going to be unemployed at some point!
I work on commission. If I don't do anything, I don't make anything....and that's how it should be. People should be paid what they are worth without the government intervening.
Studies have shown the bolded statement to be false.
I've linked them in this forum previously.
Do you have any data in support of your statement?
I think there should be a guaranteed national income. That way nobody would have to work! This is the greatest country in the world. No one should have to work if they don't want to.
Yes, Minimum Wage laws help people - the ones they don't fire.
What you do, is work hard enough to ensure that you are NOT one of the ones they fire. The ones who are unproductive, and always seem to have time for a quick smoke break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
If you have a family of four to support, why are you working as a clerk at a stereo store, or picking apricots in an orchard? With no plans to move up to a better-paying job, get training at night school, etc.? Is it your employer's job to support your family? Or is it yours?
Because--education costs money, which, if you remember, you don't have, as you are being paid a minimum wage. Should it support a family of four? No--but it should support a family of two. They don't have to eat three meals a day, or have steak and lobster dinners, but they should have enough to pay for shelter, and perhaps one meal a day. Remember, no matter how expensive abortion gets to be, having a kid's even more expensive.
LOL...the "data" that I have is that I've had to get rid of employees before due to them costing me more than they were worth. An employer pays much more than just the "wage"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
Do you have any data in support of your statement?
I was wondering what everyone's opinions are on a minimum wage increase?
I think its ironic that people have objections to the increase from 5.15 to 7.25
an hour at the federal level, many states have already raised the minumum wage to about that level.
According to the CBO in the next 5 years the minimum wage increase would cost 16.5 billion dollars from private sector employers.
I personally think that government should cover half the cost of the 16.5 billion dollar in wage hikes do to the minimum wage increase. That way the small locally owned retail and service companies wouldnt need to lay people off if this passes or cut hours.
I think a good idea would be for the goverment to cover the increase in minimum wage in economically depressed counties with unemployment rates above say 6% or in areas with poverty rates above 15%. That way the employer would still only have to pay 5.15 and the government could pay the 2.10.
While minimum wage hikes are good alot of small and medium sized retail and food servicecompanies in economically depressed areas could need to lay people off if this increase passes, so thus I dont see why the government doesnt cover the minimum wage increase for these companies.
When I was growing up in California, I watched it go up several times. Each time it did, as you mention people were laid off. Also, prices across the board went up as business then had the perfect excuse for price hikes. This resulted in the wage index being skewed even more than it was. While the increase brought more income for the worker, the products the worker purchased went up more. In a town were a the minimum wage could afford a single person living in a small apartment living fairly comfortable (though obviously giving up some things) turned into multiple people on minimum wage being unable to afford the cost of living even while sharing apartments.
When I was in college, I shared an apartment with one other. As minimum wage shot up in my state, we had to get more roommates to handle the costs. This was consistent for food, clothing, and others costs.
In my experience, seeing it from a child increase from under 2 dollars all the way up to 8 dollars and working at that wage through some of that, I can only say that the increases did far more harm than they helped which I think is consistent with most "good intention" regulations.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
