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Yes, there is much you are missing, but the most relevant detail is this one: I have not perpetrated any violence against anyone. Ever. Now, that being the case, you tell me who it is that has reason to hate me? (besides you and your cohorts for not agreeing with you)
If you have evidence that the individuals in the picture backed or funded 9/11, now's the time to show it. If you can't, you are the most contemptible variety of racist scum to infect the earth. Please do the planet a favor and kill yourself, as you're no use to any living thing.
Your actions, so far, are the defense of a manifestly psychotic and racist poster. What other actions do you want to be judged by?
Oh, no! You just defended an outrageously racist post that did precisely that--link a bunch of people in mourning over their dead children with the attackers of 9/11, because their country happened once to have been overrun and occupied with those same attackers. I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to overlook your obvious sensitivity!
When you find one that does, let us know. Until then you will occupy the same moral sewer as neo-Nazis, and those wonderful folks who murdered a Sikh after 9/11 because he "looked like the enemy."
For someone who professes to be anti-racist (anti-hate), there is sure a lot of hate in your words. That's generally a poor way to make a legitimate point. I think you missed the part where I said I have no enemies--at least not until someone makes me their enemy. What troubles me is the very thing you claim to be against... categorization and groupthink. Examine the protesters shown regularly on Arab television. Then tell me that you're not watching groupthink and categorization.
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Originally Posted by braderjoe
Hate? That is a pretty strong word
Yes, 'spose it is. But that is what I see coming from much of the video clip material from the Middle East (not ALL mind you. There are as many level-headed people there as there are here, I'd assume). Worse yet, it's extent is unjustified. What I don't see is Americans waving banners to kill Arabs. Yes, there are incidents. But I don't see us as a people doing that. I don't see people running around bombing anyone in sight, or shooting them, or beheading them. And for me at least, that says something about the temperament and value system of the two cultures in general. Are there bad folk here in the good ol' US? Damn rights. But it seems a bit more prevalent there. It almost seems to be an inherently more militant society. Haven't you noticed? Not to say that's what everyone wants there... but it is what it is.
Yes, there is much you are missing, but the most relevant detail is this one: I have not perpetrated any violence against anyone.
No one said that you did, and it's not a 'relevant detail', it's irrelevant and moot. You are not the center of this conversation. You are accusing another human being of all sorts of atrocities based off a picture and a few video bytes where he is 'in fact' committing no atrocity (other than free speech) and I'm simply trying to deduce where you're coming up with your vitriolic contempt and over generalizations for other human beings.
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
Ever. Now, that being the case, you tell me who it is that has reason to hate me? (besides you and your cohorts for not agreeing with you)
Now I hate you? You're being unnecessarily dramatic and obfuscating the main point at hand here... I thought I was talking to a consenting, reasonable adult.
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Originally Posted by ChrisC
What I don't see is Americans waving banners to kill Arabs. Yes, there are incidents. But I don't see us as a people doing that..
That's quite the non sequitur. You are just wrong on so many levels... 1st, You're comparing apples to oranges. Although I'm sure there are plenty here that could care less whether an innocent Arab dies and even laugh about it (I've seen plenty of them during the campaign, some 'value system'), it would be nonsensical for them to hold up signs and protest... for what? Our soil is not being bombed... our civilians are not dying. 2nd, you're characterizing their people as a whole based off a thousand or so protestors. Would this not be an 'incident' that you speak of?
As much as a great many in this country detest Arabs now without being bombed daily; without their country being in utter turmoil; and without their lives being a complete mess as a result. I think you are far too presumptuous (and optimistic) of our 'value' system and how a proportionate amount of people would really react in this country if given the same scenario. I don't perceive a me first, consumerist culture as the most tolerant bunch exactly... you can just look at 9-11 where our country ultimately occupied a country; indirectly & directly killed 10s of thousands; and left over a million homeless (I know this is a low ball est.) or as refugees; in a place which had nothing to do with the singular atrocity commited against us.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find an even better example of intolerance that I saw recently, a crazy toothless hick on the back of a motorcycle in a trailer park devaluing A-RABS and Obama about a 100 times... unrelated, but have any of you seen it on break? I delete my temp internet files recently, lol.
Last edited by tekka-maki; 01-27-2009 at 09:47 AM..
Well being an animal yourself you may appreciate that the 9/11 terrorists were not Afghani. They were mainly Saudi, with some Yemeni and Syrian. The poor Afghani's lacked a government suffiecient to block the influx of Taliban extremists and Al Qiaida terrorists from using their country as a training camp. How much different the picture might have been had the US not reneged on their promise of post-war aid once the Soviet Union was defeated and set packing by these poor long suffering people.
As an animal you're probably also aware of the intimate relationship between the Saudi Royal family and the Bush family. If your hostility is not directed only at bystanders, why don't you go over and blow up a few Saudi civilians and see what happens to you?
Yes, 'spose it is. But that is what I see coming from much of the video clip material from the Middle East (not ALL mind you. There are as many level-headed people there as there are here, I'd assume). Worse yet, it's extent is unjustified. What I don't see is Americans waving banners to kill Arabs. Yes, there are incidents. But I don't see us as a people doing that. I don't see people running around bombing anyone in sight, or shooting them, or beheading them. And for me at least, that says something about the temperament and value system of the two cultures in general. Are there bad folk here in the good ol' US? Damn rights. But it seems a bit more prevalent there. It almost seems to be an inherently more militant society. Haven't you noticed? Not to say that's what everyone wants there... but it is what it is.
Perhaps its because they don't appreciate their country or whatever being interfered with? Iim of course not referring to the ordinary citizen or GI..i mean the administration. A case in mind is Iran. Remember the days of the Shah of Iran. He was a mean sonafbitch...and kept only in brutal power by the CIA. Any wonder why the ayatollahs over there are pretty mad..but again..despite all the mediah hoohaa...the average Iranian or muslim don't 'hate' the average american
Perhaps its because they don't appreciate their country or whatever being interfered with? Iim of course not referring to the ordinary citizen or GI..i mean the administration. A case in mind is Iran. Remember the days of the Shah of Iran. He was a mean sonafbitch...and kept only in brutal power by the CIA. Any wonder why the ayatollahs over there are pretty mad..but again..despite all the mediah hoohaa...the average Iranian or muslim don't 'hate' the average american
I agree with everything you say here. The back and forth squabbling on this thread has been at two levels. I am talking at a human, 'ordinary citizen' level. Other participants are going at it at a government or political level. I would no more condone the actions of this government as I would any other government. But you and I are not our government. So when planes or bombs or whatever come in at us, the perpetrators are trying to amputate a finger to cure a brain tumor.
And, yes, that applies just the same to the Afghan gentleman in the picture--he's obviously mad about SOMETHING. Bombing the innocent, whether with bombers in Afghanistan or airliners in the US, is only going to p**s people off. It doesn't help. There has to be a better way.
Rather than escalating atrocities, killing one another for whatever reason, or trying to develop a better bomb, why don't we find that way? Beheading my countryman doesn't help. Bombing Afghan farmers doesn't help. Squawking about who's to blame doesn't help. I'm sure everyone on this thread can figure out what does help. Hint: it's not hate and violence.
I agree with everything you say here. The back and forth squabbling on this thread has been at two levels. I am talking at a human, 'ordinary citizen' level. Most other participants are going at it at a government or political level. I would no more condone the actions of this government as I would any other government. But you and I are not our government. So when planes or bombs or whatever comes in at us, the perpetrators are trying to amputate a finger to cure a brain tumor.
And, yes, that applies just the same to the Afghan gentleman in the picture--he's obviously mad about SOMETHING. Bombing the innocent, whether with bombers in Afghanistan or airliners in the US, is only going to p**s people off. It doesn't help. There has to be a better way.
Rather than escalating atrocities, killing one another for whatever reason, or trying to develop a better bomb, why don't we find that way? Beheading my countryman doesn't help. Bombing Afghan farmers doesn't help. Squawking about who's to blame doesn't help. I'm sure everyone on this thread can figure out what does help. Hint: it's not hate and violence.
Well said.. One can only hope elements from both sides will give a listen to that Lennon song about peace
There you go. Thank you. Much better. The mind of a flunky who didn't make it through 10th grade is not nearly so limber as yours. You are certainly a treasure trove of knowledge this evening, because I had also mistakenly assumed that the 9/11 terrorists were actually backed or funded by other entities. Silly me. It hadn’t occurred to me that they were acting in a vacuum. As you say, the 9/11 terrorists are dead now, and of course their cause is too.
By the way, do you think the Afghanistan fellow there in the picture is affirming my right to exist? Do you think if I were standing face to face with him he would shake my hand? I would be willing to shake his, but we both know that ain’t gonna happen. Let me tell you something: I have no ill will against anyone on the face of this planet, unless they have unfounded ill will against me. I am an individual. Base your judgment of me on MY actions.
I just want to be left alone to live my life. I don’t want airplanes crashing around me, or bombs going off, or whatever else. I’m sure the Afghani fellow wants the same. The difference is, he blames every one of my countrymen and me for violence perpetrated against him and shouts for my death; I, on the other hand, do not blame him and his countrymen for violence perpetrated on Americans. I blame those who are responsible for the acts of terrorism and I do not shout for the death of all Afghanis, Iranians, etc. So when a mob on the other side of the world, which knows nothing of me, is shouting for my head to be displayed at the end of a pole, you’ll forgive me if I tell that mob to f-off.
I know you've tried to bring my critical thinking skills up to par... and I'm truly sorry, but I just can't seem to fathom the part where I'm supposed to feel sympathy for the cause of those who would kill me for no legitimate reason.
What can actually and factually be extrapolated from the picture in the Yahoo News article?
I see an angry man who is protesting a US air strike that killed civilians. Maybe there were terrorist killed as well, maybe not, but those protesting in the picture are angry and likely vengeful because of this attack.
Now you say that I should judge you on your words and actions alone, well I would say we should judge the people in the picture by the same merits. I don't know anymore than you or anyone here if that man is a terrorist or just some Afghan farmer who had his brother blown to bits. One of the problems with using remote strikes based upon intelligence in this region is that the intelligence has been quite poor in the past and there is no indications that it has improved yet. So when someone starts a thread with a picture of an angry and upset Afghan and then refers to them as "animals", I see a perpetuation of hatred, violence, and racism. What would be peoples feelings if this guy were in a forum in Kabul and posted a picture of angry American's after 9-11 and someone posted, "American animals", would not you or others be offended and disgusted?
I have neither the room nor the time for hatred of those I know nothing about and when wild presumptions are stated as self evident, I find that offensive to reason. If you wish a calm and reasoned discussion, I'll give you one, if you desire to come at me with moral indignation based upon a presumption, then you will likely get in return that which you give.
I rail against terms like evil because they only serve to emotionally obfuscate a discussion that might otherwise be rational. Those who attacked us are not evil, they are angry, full of hate and they feel they have a legitimate reason to attack us. We can disagree and argue why they are wrong, but when we dilute a discussion to terms such as good and evil, it precludes and frames a discussion in terms which are at best, inaccurate and imbalanced. Good and evil are great for Sunday school or the emotionally reactive, but if one wants to determine causality or basis for why people such as this feel the way they do, then lets ask the right questions and dispense with emotion.
As long as the new administration doesn't try to act like the previous one
So you don't want the US protected?
Dictators overthrown?
People freed from tyranny and fear?
How sad. I think the Bush administration did an incredible job, during very difficult times, and our military has performed with honor and sacrafice.
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One can only hope elements from both sides will give a listen to that Lennon song about peace
