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Old 01-28-2009, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,292 posts, read 37,174,791 times
Reputation: 16397

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Quote:
Originally Posted by paullySC View Post
Obama supporters don't care. It's pathetic. I'm glad none of the Republicans voted for it let the Democrats make fools of themselves. Spineless parasites.
I believe that 11 Democrats voted against it.

There is a whole bunch of pork in it. For example ACORN got a few millions, and so Family Planning. There are also a bunch of Federal Government agencies receiving a lot of money.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:03 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,846,314 times
Reputation: 1033
can you say painting yourselves in a corner! This stimulus might end your party for a while so I understand the bitter whine! As a chef let me tell you that sour and bitter cut through the richness of fatty pork! Unfortunately for you i don't think that rule translates to politics!
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,292 posts, read 37,174,791 times
Reputation: 16397
From $300 to $400 million for STDs prevention !!! How is that going to help the economy?
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Rural Northern California
1,020 posts, read 2,754,459 times
Reputation: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
No, none of these self-deceived laissez-faire free-market types who stood by while a bunch of cowboy capitalists ran the global economy straight into the ground has ever been much of a hero to me.
So I suppose the bleeding heart, power-hungry, quasi-socialists are better? You can blame greedy capitalists all you want, and certainly you're partially correct, but you also can't absolve the FNMA, dramatic expansions in the CRA, or other legislation that required lenders to make 'affordable housing' available to those who couldn't afford it. The result of this was, ultimately, inflated home prices which created the now infamous 'housing bubble'.

Quote:
No, it's actually very much a Republican thing. They created the recession to which they responded inappropriately, then didn't mind the henhouse while the fox ate all the chickens, even while people were telling them "The foxes are eating all the chickens." Who would you blame in that situation?
You're half-right and half-wrong. The Republicans did not singlehandly create the recession, Democrats are at least as guilty as Republicans, if not more so. Republicans saw the writing on the wall, and tried to several times to reign in the sub-prime lending policies, but were ultimately blocked by the Democrats (though it likely would have been a case of 'too-little too-late', anyway). However, the response of the Bush administration to the crisis (bailouts) was absolutely wrong, and completely contrary to conservative ideology. You can't spend your way out of recession. You can only cut taxes and let the free-market correct things itself. We learned the lesson twice during the great depression (first with Hoover, then with FDR), but when people are out of work and scared, handouts sound like a pretty good deal indeed. This stimulus bill? Simply another example of failed Keynesian economic theory...it will be too slow to be effective the short term, and too inefficient (the essential nature of government bureaucracy, and all) to effective in the long term, ultimately only resulting in crippling inflation and devaluation of the U.S. dollar. Dr. Thomas Sowell said in his recent article "What Are They Buying?", of the recent stimulus plan, "Using long, drawn-out processes to put money into circulation to meet an emergency is like mailing a letter to the fire department to tell them that your house is on fire."

Sources/Things I've Found Interesting:



FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

Thomas Sowell : The Economic "Stimulus" - Townhall.com


YouTube - Milton Friedman - Greed


YouTube - Keynesian Economics Is Wrong: Bigger Gov't Is Not Stimulus


YouTube - Peter Schiff "Learns" the College Economics Educator Jeremy Siegel
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,292 posts, read 37,174,791 times
Reputation: 16397
Quote:
Originally Posted by AONE View Post
Why is it no one objects to spending billions for
Unmanned Little Bird (ULB),


super attach helicopter, cobra attack helicopters, Arapaho helicopters, chinook helicopters,the avenger air defense system,

and so on.... yet people object if we give 50M to the arts... I would rather invest in beauty than war. enough with the guns, make some butter.
Ah! You are forgetting that there are assembly lines, rows of workers building those helicopters. And it doesn't stop there, since those factories employ a lot of people. But I still don't agree with the stupid bill, since it's a waste of money.

The arts? Nothing is produced by the arts, so it's a greater waste of money.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:37 AM
 
4,657 posts, read 8,710,823 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perkins Well View Post
We need as many public transportation options as possible. I believe Amtrak still has potential, especially in a megapolis like the Northeast.

What's wrong with climate control research? Child care?

If you're a senior citizen, or someone that doesn't have the digital conversion set up, would you rather pay $65 or $15?
Despite 40 years to the contrary. How would that help stimulate the economy anyway?
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:41 AM
 
2,654 posts, read 5,465,073 times
Reputation: 1946
Quote:
Originally Posted by AONE View Post
Why is it no one objects to spending billions for
Unmanned Little Bird (ULB),


super attach helicopter, cobra attack helicopters, Arapaho helicopters, chinook helicopters,the avenger air defense system,

and so on.... yet people object if we give 50M to the arts... I would rather invest in beauty than war. enough with the guns, make some butter.
Because only the gov't can defend us. That's what they are supposed to be doing with my tax dollars.

You want more art? Make a donation to the arts organization of your choice. The Gov't has no role in spending on the arts.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:46 AM
 
3,292 posts, read 4,473,578 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
Despite 40 years to the contrary. How would that help stimulate the economy anyway?
Amtrak doesn't own the rail in the northeast, so they make all kinds of concessions to freight. That's the reason it's slow. If Amtrak had their own rails it would be way more efficient and people would use it more frequently to go between major business centers like:

Washington, Boston, New York.

You don't see any economic benefit in linking 3 major economic metros? If they improve it it would drive down costs for businesses to use those systems regularly instead of blowing money on planes, especially since fuel isn't going to get cheaper.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:47 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,846,314 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k View Post
So I suppose the bleeding heart, power-hungry, quasi-socialists are better? You can blame greedy capitalists all you want, and certainly you're partially correct, but you also can't absolve the FNMA, dramatic expansions in the CRA, or other legislation that required lenders to make 'affordable housing' available to those who couldn't afford it. The result of this was, ultimately, inflated home prices which created the now infamous 'housing bubble'.



You're half-right and half-wrong. The Republicans did not singlehandly create the recession, Democrats are at least as guilty as Republicans, if not more so. Republicans saw the writing on the wall, and tried to several times to reign in the sub-prime lending policies, but were ultimately blocked by the Democrats (though it likely would have been a case of 'too-little too-late', anyway). However, the response of the Bush administration to the crisis (bailouts) was absolutely wrong, and completely contrary to conservative ideology. You can't spend your way out of recession. You can only cut taxes and let the free-market correct things itself. We learned the lesson twice during the great depression (first with Hoover, then with FDR), but when people are out of work and scared, handouts sound like a pretty good deal indeed. This stimulus bill? Simply another example of failed Keynesian economic theory...it will be too slow to be effective the short term, and too inefficient (the essential nature of government bureaucracy, and all) to effective in the long term, ultimately only resulting in crippling inflation and devaluation of the U.S. dollar. Dr. Thomas Sowell said in his recent article "What Are They Buying?", of the recent stimulus plan, "Using long, drawn-out processes to put money into circulation to meet an emergency is like mailing a letter to the fire department to tell them that your house is on fire."

Sources/Things I've Found Interesting:



FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

Thomas Sowell : The Economic "Stimulus" - Townhall.com


YouTube - Milton Friedman - Greed


YouTube - Keynesian Economics Is Wrong: Bigger Gov't Is Not Stimulus


YouTube - Peter Schiff "Learns" the College Economics Educator Jeremy Siegel
from another thread posted by sickofnyc!
10 Absurd Conservative Myths About Obama's Recovery Plan | Election 2008 | AlterNet
How ironic!
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:48 AM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,929,707 times
Reputation: 12440
This Bill is yet another example of good ol' Washington pork. Unfortunately, they always serve it rotten.
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