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Old 01-30-2009, 02:04 AM
 
1,238 posts, read 1,413,559 times
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You do realize cutting taxes is what got us here in the first place right? You know, starting that whole most expensive war in history while lowering taxes thing? Yeah, lets have more of the same...

And its climate change because some areas get hotter while some get cooler, and it depends on the time of year. It was called global warming at the time because we were focusing on the ice caps melting etc. that had to do with certain climates getting hotter. I mean do you really think that you are some how smarter than 99% of the world's scientists, and more knowledgeable on the subject of climate change because you watch Fox News and drink the Bushy kool aid? come on man.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
But taxes WERE cut. It made no difference. It created no jobs. Do you understand this? They simply took the jobs elsewhere. And now, they will not be satisfied unless they are able to operate in a first-world country with third-world costs. Carter was the 70s. When Clinton left office, the national budget had a surplus. The economic crisis we are in, and the mushrooming of government, happened over the last 8 years, under the Bush administration. It's not difficult to understand.

Clinton raised taxes until Gingrich made him eat his lunch in 1995. It was the Republican Revolution that forced changes onto Clinton that he fought against. Just because Clinton took credit for the outcome doesn't mean he supported the policies that brought it about like Pay-Go, tax cuts (after Clinton reneged on his campaign promise) and spending cuts that we had to shut down the government to get. It was only after that that consumer confidence skyrocketed bringing in a booming economy.

The rest of the world has the same economic problems we do. But GWB wasn't the PM of Japan, GB or Iceland where they recently had street demonstrations. If you think GWB caused our current economic condition, what actions of GWB specifically do you think caused it? Love to get an answer on that.

Don't like the size of government or the national debt post GWB? Get back to me in about three months and we'll compare notes.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Companies don't go to other nations because our regulations "cost them too much money." Neither do they leave because of a high corporate tax rate. They make a perfectly decent profit staying at home, and are perfectly "competitive" staying at home. But they don't want to make merely a "profit." Even a hefty "profit" is no longer sufficient. They want to make a killing. Globalization offered the opportunity for obscene profit--and usually at the expense of the health of the planet (few pesky environmental regulations in those undeveloped countries, you know) and the health of third-world laborers (and no, they are not happy being locked into a factory 12 hours/day, making merely subsistence wages working for American companies). It's amazing to me that people are naive enough to actually believe the lies they are fed by this segment of corporate America.

I don't have to take an economics course, thanks. I teach a course on Capitalism and Sustainability. I have a pretty good idea of the state of the economy.
"Companies don't go to other nations because our regulations "cost them too much money." Neither do they leave because of a high corporate tax rate."

Why would they not?

Since when is a "decent" profit good enough for capitalists?
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,508 posts, read 33,295,278 times
Reputation: 7622
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
But taxes WERE cut. It made no difference. It created no jobs.
I would not call 52 consecutive months of job growth "not creating jobs!" Or "not making any difference."

Quote:
When Clinton left office, the national budget had a surplus
Thanks to the 1995 Republican-written Balanced Budget Amendment, of which Clinton at first would not sign into law.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:42 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,897 posts, read 8,315,282 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal4now View Post
I am pleased to see that some honest congressmen are truly taking the Presidents message of not playing politics with the stimilus bill exist on that side of the aisle! Simple fact is 12% stimilus and 88% pork that couldnt be passed elsewhere is not Change. It is politics as usual. BTW these numbers are from the CBO (congressional budget office).
Actually what they are is Democrats in red districts facing reelection in 2010.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:04 AM
 
1,238 posts, read 1,413,559 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Clinton raised taxes until Gingrich made him eat his lunch in 1995. It was the Republican Revolution that forced changes onto Clinton that he fought against. Just because Clinton took credit for the outcome doesn't mean he supported the policies that brought it about like Pay-Go, tax cuts (after Clinton reneged on his campaign promise) and spending cuts that we had to shut down the government to get. It was only after that that consumer confidence skyrocketed bringing in a booming economy.

The rest of the world has the same economic problems we do. But GWB wasn't the PM of Japan, GB or Iceland where they recently had street demonstrations. If you think GWB caused our current economic condition, what actions of GWB specifically do you think caused it? Love to get an answer on that.

Don't like the size of government or the national debt post GWB? Get back to me in about three months and we'll compare notes.
I'm pretty sure you've figured this out, but I'll refresh your memory. W started the most expensive war in the history of the world, while at the same time lowering taxes for no apparent reason other than to get people to like him. Not to mention his complete lack of understanding of anything to do with economics.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:27 AM
 
24,392 posts, read 23,044,056 times
Reputation: 14983
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Funny, though, that it was the Republicans who gambled America away to China. How many trillions are we in debt now? From an administration that inherited a SURPLUS??? Are you "glad" about that, too?

It's also funny, therefore, that you actually think these same Republicans are capable of seeing "fault and dangers" in an economic plan. That's really, really funny.
>>>> You know who got China their most favored nation trading status? Al Gore was the tie breaking vote that got it passed. Obama's expert on global warming. So Obama plans to bankrupt us as bad as Bush did and he should be praised for it? No, thank you. It's time to put partisan politics aside and start making life difficult for everybody in Washington. But you have to start at the top and take on the party in charge first.
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Here is how it turned out:

Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid:

-------------------- 2000--------- 2006
Top 1%------------- 37.42%------ 39.89%
Bottom 50%--------- 3.91%------- 2.99%

Source: Internal Revenue Service
Amazing numbers! What are they telling? And how are they telling you anything about the costs incurred and the returns? That's all I'm asking for.
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,806,382 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Since when is a "decent" profit good enough for capitalists?
You should tell me. Why would they come back or hire here if...
- Nobody's buying (shrinking consumer market)
- One can always find a cheaper place to invest and hire

It is your kind of thinking that believes something like TARP to work... give them money and they will definitely put it to work as intended. It works, right? And it has, when?
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:25 AM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,440,298 times
Reputation: 3050
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Mo's View Post
What's really, really funny is that you don't think there's one Republican member of congress who has anything good to offer to a stimulus plan. This is just ridiculous...... There are several members from either party with much to offer. I'm starting to think you're just a socialist looking for attention.
or just a unhappy instigator!
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