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I think it's a noble idea, and philosophically, I kind of agree with the idea of everyone having affordable health care. I mean, I can't just tell a poor cancer patient "s*rew you". It just seems wrong. But I do have serious worries about how it would work out in practice, at least here in the U.S. There are legitimate drawbacks that I can see.
I think though, that people are confusing "universal health care" with "socialized medicine" and they can be two different things. In the UK the NHS is a central agency that controls health coverage for the Brits. Whereas in Canada, health care is provided by the provinces. In both situations, you have the option of getting private insurance. Now if I remember right, Obama's plan didn't force people into a central health system. In fact, if you were satisfied with your insurance, then you didn't have to switch.
In short, I would support anything that made health care affordable for all Americans, and if that could be done through the market, then fine with me. Just as long as we weren't all shuttled through one federal agency. I doubt that would happen in the U.S. though. It would probably be run at the state level like the public schools are if we go in that direction.
Exactly, I like it if we have a choice about it... instead of being forced into a system with "socialist" billing (by that I mean people pay by percentage of their income instead of a flat fee) which is like someone paying $1 for an apple and someone paying $10 for an apple.... if "healthcare" is so important as people say, then it should be a flat fee and not a percentage of income... but here is the kicker... it won't work because simply if people were to pay a flat fee, it wouldn't be affordable... billing doesn't work... for the same reason social security doesn't really work... it works for a short while and then you have problems.... you can't charge someone who makes $10 an hour $5000 annual premiums... and then you have the illegal immigration problem on top of it all...
Keeping in mind that I was not even born in the US, and that I already know about "socialized medicine," I can tell you that socialized medicine is coming to us Americans. See, generations of Americans have had it easy compared to a lot of other peoples around the world. These freedoms Americans enjoy have attracted generations of immigrants from around the world, but all is coming to an end as socialism is changing the face of the nation.
You don't have to believe what I am to tell you, but consider "socialized medicine" just as what the US public education is today: a complete mess. Under such a system, there is no need for a doctor or hospital to excel, since there is no monetary value for the doctor or hospital. In my view, the best medicine is what we now have, except that it's too expensive. However, there are three branches of Government that can easily bring the cost down by stopping frivolous lawsuits, and by centralizing insurance claims. Doctors have no choice but to charge a lot of money, for their liability insurance is sky high.
Some people are opposed to universal health care because they: 1) Have heard that it doesn't work in other countries where they have it; 2.) Believe it won't work in the U.S. because our situation is different (i.e. U.S. is a bigger country, has more people, etc).
All that said, I've yet to see ANY ONE present ANY evidence that ANY developed country where they have AMY universal health care is in ANY way inferior to the U.S. in terms of ANY metrics mearuring their health/health care vs. ours.
I also have to say that my earlier post re: "How do you feel about this issue if you've traveled outside the U.S. to countries with universal healthcare?" seems to be curiously ignored by those in the opposition.....
Keeping in mind that I was not even born in the US, and that I already know about "socialized medicine," I can tell you that socialized medicine is coming to us Americans. See, generations of Americans have had it easy compared to a lot of other peoples around the world. These freedoms Americans enjoy have attracted generations of immigrants from around the world, but all is coming to an end as socialism is changing the face of the nation.
You don't have to believe what I am to tell you, but consider "socialized medicine" just as what the US public education is today: a complete mess. Under such a system, there is no need for a doctor or hospital to excel, since there is no monetary value for the doctor or hospital. In my view, the best medicine is what we now have, except that it's too expensive. However, there are three branches of Government that can easily bring the cost down by stopping frivolous lawsuits, and by centralizing insurance claims. Doctors have no choice but to charge a lot of money, for their liability insurance is sky high.
Not to pry, but since you brought it up ... what has been your FIRSTHAND experience with "socialized medicine?"
As I read through this thread, I quoted some posts I wanted to respond to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Winchester
Universal health care would bankrupt the United States because we have over 300 million people. It easy to have universal health care in a country like Sweden for example which only has 10 million people.
As many others have said, a system based on taxes would have everyone paying in some form (sales, income, etc), so that should not be an issue. The "population density" issue brought up by someone is a bit misleading. Colorado is shown as a low density state (I hate those maps with all shades of one color), but about half the people live in metro Denver, and I believe about 90% live along the Front Range from Ft. Collins to Puelbo. So the population is quite dense in those counties. There are few true "rural" states any more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK
<snip>
You don't have to believe what I am to tell you, but consider "socialized medicine" just as what the US public education is today: a complete mess. Under such a system, there is no need for a doctor or hospital to excel, since there is no monetary value for the doctor or hospital. In my view, the best medicine is what we now have, except that it's too expensive. However, there are three branches of Government that can easily bring the cost down by stopping frivolous lawsuits, and by centralizing insurance claims. Doctors have no choice but to charge a lot of money, for their liability insurance is sky high.
Actually, centralizing insurance claims is one of the proposals. Standardizing them would make sense, too, so that inurance "A" provided the same care as insurance "B" (for the same price).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl
We do have universal healthcare. It's called an emergency room. And believe me, plenty of people take advantage of that.
Actually, the research shows that the uninsured are NOT more likely to use the ER than the insured. A lot of people simply don't know how to use their PCP's after-hours services. I work in a pediatric office and I'm always amazed and saddened to hear parents tell me they knew we weren't open on the weekend so they took their kid to the ER for a fever which turned out to be an ear infection. All they have to do is call the office number and they will get connected to the dr. on call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin
Mostly because of ignorant people who don't understand that every other 1st world country provides ALL of their people with vastly superior medical care compared to the US at a cost of around 25%-33% of what that care would cost in the US. We pay the most of any country in the world and get the worst care.
Just look at the posters in this thread. It's a textbook case of ignorance in action.
I really don't think it costs *that* much less. There is lots of indirect cost in a UHC (tax collection, etc). I am in favor of UHC, but I don't have any illusions that it will give me more coverage for less money.
More complicated, for sure. That's why in a big country like the U.S. we could never have a federal postal service. Or federal highways. Or federal education system. Or ....
Healthcare is different from a Postal service. Now it can depend on what type of universal system. Single-Payer systems like Canada's,the UK's and Australia's are known for having problems with long waiting list for healthcare access and those country's populations are smaller than America's. Whatever system we adopt in America will need to take our population into account.
Ummmm... its pretty well known how Obama wants to shape it... two different systems working in concert to insure everybody... one is government managed and the other is private insurance groups... If you can't buy a good plan you will HAVE to buy a sucky government plan and pay it... Basically no stealing from other people to pay for your care... you will still be ultimately responsible for it... the only thing that has changed is that you HAVE to have a health plan... whether it is the cheap sucky plan by the government or through a private insurer...
Some people are opposed to universal health care because they: 1) Have heard that it doesn't work in other countries where they have it; 2.) Believe it won't work in the U.S. because our situation is different (i.e. U.S. is a bigger country, has more people, etc).
I never bothered to ask about their health care, but I was talking to a co-worker from a Canadian office, and he pointed out that after taxes he only gets about 40-50% of his salary. So it points out that Canadian taxes are high. Who here in the US wants to take home 50% or less of their salary?
Originally posted by Blue Grass Fever
I wish some of the posters in this thread get a chance to live in Detroit, Michigan and then live in Windsor, Ontario.
It'd change your perception when speaking of health care.
How so? Please explain.
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