Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Exactly...they were too scared just to fight for a few moderate GOP votes...It is ultimately a failure of the Democrats...they didn't have the balls to tell the GOP and Obama with his "bipartisan love fest" and shove it.
Now the bill is ruined. It's too small and too ineffective to make a difference.
All it will wind up doing is increasing the deficit without stimulating the economy.
It was a simple choice. Vote for standard macro economic policy that says Gvt spending is the best way to stimulate the economy or go with a radical, non economic, non scientific GOP ideology that says tax cuts are the best thing all the time....Government spending is bad.
Same mistake made in the great depression. Hopefully Obama finds a way to follow it up quickly, before the fall is too steep.
There was an interesting article in the Idahostatesman today... it talked about how Japan handled their recession after a housing bubble burst in the late 80's...
They threw massive amounts of money at investments in infrastructure and civil jobs etc. And they also provided large tax cuts to corporations...In the process they built the largest debt every carried by a 1st world nation. Looking back.. every analyst and retired public official involved in the stimulus plan now has said.. that public infrastructure job creation, and tax cuts weren't the solution.. Investment was... Case in point.. Investing in education, social services, seems to have been what pulled them out of their rut in the early 90's. Such investments included funding education programs, joint ventures in research at universities to spawn new business ventures, as well as investing in local and regional transportation, and technological resources.
Getting the economy back on track isn't going to happen by employing people to dig holes and then cover them back up... Nor is it going to happen by giving rich people more of their tax dollars in hope they'll create jobs.. because they won't... It takes investing in something that will point a direction to the future, and guide the marketplace to new breeding grounds for innovation, as well as building a nurturing environment for all of such things to take place...
People with the money, aren't the people with all the best ideas.. When people with ideas don't have access to money.. they fall by the wayside.. and when people with money don't have any ideas they sit on their money... the end result is america loosing its competitive advantage...
Having the most millionaires per capita is not a competitive advantage.. when all your national innovation has fallen by the wayside or is dictated by people with the money bags...
Lets sit down and think about all sides clearly before we jump on a bandwagon...
Mr. Money bags doesn't create jobs he's merely an investor..... innovation is the foundation for job creation...
There was an interesting article in the Idahostatesman today... it talked about how Japan handled their recession after a housing bubble burst in the late 80's...
They threw massive amounts of money at investments in infrastructure and civil jobs etc. And they also provided large tax cuts to corporations...In the process they built the largest debt every carried by a 1st world nation. Looking back.. every analyst and retired public official involved in the stimulus plan now has said.. that public infrastructure job creation, and tax cuts weren't the solution.. Investment was... Case in point.. Investing in education, social services, seems to have been what pulled them out of their rut in the early 90's. Such investments included funding education programs, joint ventures in research at universities to spawn new business ventures, as well as investing in local and regional transportation, and technological resources.
Getting the economy back on track isn't going to happen by employing people to dig holes and then cover them back up... Nor is it going to happen by giving rich people more of their tax dollars in hope they'll create jobs.. because they won't... It takes investing in something that will point a direction to the future, and guide the marketplace to new breeding grounds for innovation, as well as building a nurturing environment for all of such things to take place...
People with the money, aren't the people with all the best ideas.. When people with ideas don't have access to money.. they fall by the wayside.. and when people with money don't have any ideas they sit on their money... the end result is america loosing its competitive advantage...
Having the most millionaires per capita is not a competitive advantage.. when all your national innovation has fallen by the wayside or is dictated by people with the money bags...
Lets sit down and think about all sides clearly before we jump on a bandwagon...
Mr. Money bags doesn't create jobs he's merely an investor..... innovation is the foundation for job creation...
Here is a good article about Japans mistakes, they seem to familiar.
I was unaware that it was the job of our government, our tax dollars, to create jobs?
Didn't know that, I want a job, where is my job? oh, you mean I don't have to wait for Nobama to hand me a job? You mean this is a free country where I am aloud to get a job on my own? You mean I have the right/freedom to be as rich or as poor as I want to be/choose to be?
Weird, didn't realize that...
Hand out, where's mine?
Oh wait, guess I should not have worked so hard in school, should not have busted my arse 12-14 hours a day to get ahead, should not have moved state to state making sacrifices just to get ahead. Dang it! I could have just flipped burgers as I did in High School, and kept my hand out so the government would have made sure that I have what I deserve! Deserve...hmmm...well, I suppose we need a dictionary to define that...
Oh, and I am not rich by any stretch, I make a good income due to hard work and dedication. Something that seems to be lacking in this country right now!
I was unaware that it was the job of our government, our tax dollars, to create jobs?
Didn't know that, I want a job, where is my job? oh, you mean I don't have to wait for Nobama to hand me a job? You mean this is a free country where I am aloud to get a job on my own? You mean I have the right/freedom to be as rich or as poor as I want to be/choose to be?
Weird, didn't realize that...
Hand out, where's mine?
Oh wait, guess I should not have worked so hard in school, should not have busted my arse 12-14 hours a day to get ahead, should not have moved state to state making sacrifices just to get ahead. Dang it! I could have just flipped burgers as I did in High School, and kept my hand out so the government would have made sure that I have what I deserve! Deserve...hmmm...well, I suppose we need a dictionary to define that...
Oh, and I am not rich by any stretch, I make a good income due to hard work and dedication. Something that seems to be lacking in this country right now!
I hope you continue to do well but there a others just like you that have been layed off and there are not enough jobs out there. So take your head out of the sand and think about what if your employer is next. None of us are immune.
I was unaware that it was the job of our government, our tax dollars, to create jobs?
Didn't know that, I want a job, where is my job? oh, you mean I don't have to wait for Nobama to hand me a job? You mean this is a free country where I am aloud to get a job on my own? You mean I have the right/freedom to be as rich or as poor as I want to be/choose to be?
Weird, didn't realize that...
Hand out, where's mine?
Oh wait, guess I should not have worked so hard in school, should not have busted my arse 12-14 hours a day to get ahead, should not have moved state to state making sacrifices just to get ahead. Dang it! I could have just flipped burgers as I did in High School, and kept my hand out so the government would have made sure that I have what I deserve! Deserve...hmmm...well, I suppose we need a dictionary to define that...
Oh, and I am not rich by any stretch, I make a good income due to hard work and dedication. Something that seems to be lacking in this country right now!
that's wonderful, but I don't understand the need for the bitchy tone.
Fact of the matter is.. you got ahead because there were opportunities for you to get ahead. While i would agree that hard work is something fewer and fewer people are willing to do.. We cannot rule out the fact that for every job out there, there's 100 applicants. That is what must be addressed. There are many faucets involved in the economy.. Working hard to become your own boss is the american dream... Working to stimulate the economy is to ensure that people can rise to such greatness, and aren't forced to remain flipping burgers their whole life. Everyone's got to start somewhere....But sadly this situation takes a lot more than just telling everyone to go work harder... they have to have something to work hard at.. whether it be a 9-5 job or their own business...That takes investment.. such investment does take place from the free market as well as the government. The high schools and colleges many of us attend are exactly that.. government investment...
To sit and say the government has no part in you or I's future is ridiculous and absurd... and nothing more than retoric of certain political ideologies...
Spineless Dems Lose Again!!..... They settled on a worthless bill that has too much debt producing tax cuts and too little jobs creating spending.
digby
""Hardball is reporting that the new bill is 42% tax cuts now and 58% spending, which is considered a big win for Republicans. And they are still fighting it.
And when it finally comes to the floor, they won't vote for it anyway.
That's how a truly ruthless opposition party works. They ruin the legislation, are lauded as winners for ruining the legislation, and then vote against the legislation that they ruined. Awesome.""
Dems get played again...The GOP wrecked the stimuls bill, the media spins that the GOP won the stimulus debate....and most of the GOPers will not vote for it regardless so.... they don't incur any risk when if fails...........
Obama originally wanted 40% tax cuts and the House cut that quite a bit. Thus this is now closer to what Obama wanted in tax cuts then the House Bill.
Spineless Dems Lose Again!!..... They settled on a worthless bill that has too much debt producing tax cuts and too little jobs creating spending.
digby
""Hardball is reporting that the new bill is 42% tax cuts now and 58% spending, which is considered a big win for Republicans. And they are still fighting it.
And when it finally comes to the floor, they won't vote for it anyway.
That's how a truly ruthless opposition party works. They ruin the legislation, are lauded as winners for ruining the legislation, and then vote against the legislation that they ruined. Awesome.""
Dems get played again...The GOP wrecked the stimuls bill, the media spins that the GOP won the stimulus debate....and most of the GOPers will not vote for it regardless so.... they don't incur any risk when if fails...........
Why isn't this a big win for Obama? His original target was 40% and it was the Dem's who said no at first. Do you realize you are giving the Republicans credit for helping Obama get the amount of tax cuts he wanted? President-elect Barack Obama working on a $300 billion tax cut plan
The proposed tax cuts, which would make up about 40 percent of the economic stimulus package, may make it easier to attract Republican support for an economic-stimulus package, as many Republicans have said that economic initiatives should rely more heavily on tax cuts rather than spending, according to the Wall Street Journal.
This was January 5 before Pelosi did her thing.
So whats the complaint? Is it that Obama and the Republicans are upsetting the plans of Nancy P?
. . . .It was a simple choice. Vote for standard macro economic policy that says Gvt spending is the best way to stimulate the economy or go with a radical, non economic, non scientific GOP ideology that says tax cuts are the best thing all the time....Government spending is bad.
Rather sad for someone to believe that the gov't can spend their own money better than themselves. . . but how about me? Can I spend your money too?
Spineless Dems Lose Again!!..... They settled on a worthless bill that has too much debt producing tax cuts and too little jobs creating spending.
digby
""Hardball is reporting that the new bill is 42% tax cuts now and 58% spending, which is considered a big win for Republicans. And they are still fighting it.
And when it finally comes to the floor, they won't vote for it anyway.
That's how a truly ruthless opposition party works. They ruin the legislation, are lauded as winners for ruining the legislation, and then vote against the legislation that they ruined. Awesome.""
Dems get played again...The GOP wrecked the stimuls bill, the media spins that the GOP won the stimulus debate....and most of the GOPers will not vote for it regardless so.... they don't incur any risk when if fails...........
Apparently you don't really believe Obama's trillion dollars of new debt is going to really solve the problem we have with too much national debt.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
