Of all the things to take out of the Stimulus Package ...

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by allydriver

Incentives and competition drive excellence.
Tenure and unions are dumbing down the system.

That might be the case in some sector of private industry but not in inherently government systems. Where are these teachers who can't get jobs that would be driving competition? There aren't that many out there. The job is too hard and thankless; parents are more of a problem than the children in many cases. The people who do teach have a calling (most of them), because that job just isn't easy.
Please provide some good information about tenure and unions dumbing down the system.
Seriously, I’m interested in the studies and proof that you seem to have have.

When I went to school we had up to 35-40 kids per class.
But I’m old, and we were expected to behave and listen.

Originally Posted by Oerdin

Nuts. Having an educated population is good for the country and for the economy. What is selfish is people who refuse to contribute to society's joint social needs.

I think most people shouldn’t reproduce. I’m very clear about that. Yet I understand the need to support schools.
I attended private schools for grades 1-12, am childfree, and understand the need to provide education to the citizenry. I was a public school teacher at one time in my life.

It only makes sense. NCLB has destroyed education.

One of the things I don’t like in high school environments is that you have magnet schools for drama, the arts, separate ones for science, etc.
I think we need to get our kids a good basic education to get out in the world.
In Germany and other European countries, there is an apprenticeship program where kids who are not college bound, but going into the trades are trained in their field.

Originally Posted by oscottscotto

But in today's reality, there is no good reason to have 40 in a classroom. I'm not going to go find studies to back me up (although through past research I know they exist), but "studies show" that the 18-22 relm (or less) is the typical "number" for a healthy learning environment - before it becomes a convoluted, unhealthy one (25+).

I am also a living testiment to this. My smaller classes (usually 17-23 students) always severely outperformed my larger ones (30-38). Keep in mind these were all the same grade students, same subject, same "regular" status (not advanced), and same classroom with same teacher.

If parents were involved in public education, and kids behaved as they should in class, you could get by with larger classrooms. It’s not the system, it’s the lack of parenting and discipline. We’ve dumbed down education to the lowest common denominator so that little Sally or Bob doesn’t “feel” dumb. A lot of people are dumb. Face it. Everyone doesn’t/shouldn’t get a prize. Perhaps our ever growing population is also pushing the costs.

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

I would be really happy to dump money into school by the **** load if we would move away from this "it's not my fault" attitude. I haven't learned a single thing I refused to take responsibility for creating. I would also be more apt to want to invest money into school if it wasn't so clearly leveraged to the liberal way of thinking.... schools shouldn't be indoctrinating any children into an ideological way of thinking.

How about something other than your opinion on this. I don’t think schools are liberal at all.

Originally Posted by miu

Of course, smaller classes are better, but only up to a point. And the same goes for Obama wanting the quality of teachers to improve. However, the best teachers in the world and a one teacher to 22 student ratio aren't going to help the students in the inner city schools... not if those students are allowed to get away with beating up their teachers, not if their parents aren't going to make them have a better attitude towards their studies.

Wow, nice racist/classist statement. How many teachers are getting beat up? I’ve never heard of that in my hometown, also a large metropolitan area.
Rich white neighborhoods are not exempt from behavioral problems.

Originally Posted by Convert 54

The original fight which got it removed was over a restriction that would have prevented the money being used at ANY school that allowed any form of prayer or religious service, and that was not b=meerly aimed at the class rooms type, but after school functions, graduation, private and public

Funds should not be going to any schools that practice any type of religion or religious training outside of a higher level world religions type of history class.
Religion is for home and church.

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

Plenty of room for the next fear driven bailout to put useless items in. And you guys thought the culture of fear was gone with Bush and his homeland warnings. That was really just crying wolf...

The reality of the situation is that the US economy is a mess.
We should all be concerned.
Some people understand what a mess we’re in. Others don’t.
http://images.politico.com/global/09...artoon_600.jpg

[wyoquilter]

Originally Posted by Houston3

There are computers that will do that now... Self check out.... Works pretty dang good.

Oh yes, lets just let computers do all of the work, lets just put more people out of work with incorporating more self check outs. Let's not worry about educating poeple because computers will do all of the work for us. I hope your yard is big enough to let a few hundred folks camp out when they have no job to pay their bills and lose the roof over their heads. You know computers are only as acurate as the folks who program them. If no-one is being educated well enough to program computers then computers will be no better than the under educated person programming them. The brain of the computer is afterall the brain of the programmer. Do you still think you will get correct change at the self checkouts if the programmers can't add 2+2?

[evilnewbie]

Sorry to tell you this but spending all that money isn't going to turn the economy around and you know it.... however it is a big waste of money since it didn't do anything...

[paullySC]

Originally Posted by oscottscotto

That's good and dandy and I completely agree ... but that still doesn't help schools that have a 30/1 student-teacher ratio and do not have classrooms that come anywhere close to mirroring today's technological advances.

What's wrong with a 30 - 1 ratio?

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by momonkey

During the eight years that GWB was in office, spending on education increased by a half. Liberals love to point out that GWB created huge deficits, so which is it?

Ya he spent all that money ruining the education system. NCLB's emphasis on standardized tests instead of individual learning aims to turn our kids into robots who can regurgitate facts rather than critically think. And then funds were denied from schools that failed to meet the standards... starve the neediest, doesn't that make sense?

[miu]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

Wow, nice racist/classist statement. How many teachers are getting beat up? I’ve never heard of that in my hometown, also a large metropolitan area.
Rich white neighborhoods are not exempt from behavioral problems.

Are you calling NPR racist? Anyway, I was replying to oscottscotto who seemed to think that teachers being assaulted by students was rare.

Originally Posted by oscottscotto

And by the way, I have never known any teacher who was "beat up" by a student. Sure there might be isolated cases on the newswire, but that does not mean it is anywhere near common place. In fact, 90% of the students are still respectful. It's just the "bad" students are much more out of control.

Teaching and Trouble in the Inner City : NPR

Philadelphia Schools Grapple with Violence : NPR

[Azalea City Man]

Originally Posted by evilnewbie

Sorry to tell you this but spending all that money isn't going to turn the economy around and you know it.... however it is a big waste of money since it didn't do anything...

I don't get the bolded part. The stimulus hasn't been passed yet and you are saying that "it didn't do anything".

[Azalea City Man]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

Ya he spent all that money ruining the education system. NCLB's emphasis on standardized tests instead of individual learning aims to turn our kids into robots who can regurgitate facts rather than critically think. And then funds were denied from schools that failed to meet the standards... starve the neediest, doesn't that make sense?

... exactly, and most good teachers with a conscience have become angry with the robotic system.

[Azalea City Man]

Originally Posted by paullySC

What's wrong with a 30 - 1 ratio?

Have you been a teacher before? If yes, let's discuss.

1. Remember we are speaking of high school classrooms with small length/width dimensions - not college auditoriums.

2. Most good teaching is not done by straight lecture. You have to get the kids involved in small group work, creative participation activities, etc. It is much harder to manage such activities with 30 students than it is with 18-20 (the recommended student/teacher ratio by virtually almost every professional study out there).

[PurpleLove08]

What got cut from the stimulus bill - CNN.com

I am left shaking my head.

Why would you cut funding for science?
America needs to become more innovative and science is one of the areas we are lacking when it comes to other countries.

Why cut distance learning? It helps Americans stay home and learn rather than filling up their gas tank and helping fund terrorists in the Middle East...which then cuts some of the money we have to spend on defense and counter terrorism.

$1 billion for Energy Loan Guarantees shouldn't have been cut.

$16 billion for school construction • $3.5 billion for higher education construction


• $2.25 billion for Neighborhood Stabilization


^^shouldn't have been cut either.


::shakes head::

$75 million from Smithsonian (original bill $150 million)....money for the Smithsonian should have been completely eliminated along with $$ for National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and $$ for law enforcement wireless.