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US soldier who abandoned unit returns from Canada - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090210/ap_on_re_us/war_resister_5 - broken link)
SAVANNAH, Ga. – Sporting a dragon tattoo on his forearm and skulls on both biceps, Cliff Cornell looks tough. But he dissolves into tears as he reflects on his return to the Army four years after he fled to Canada to avoid the war in Iraq.
Yea, its pretty prose, but meaningless when the cause is not just. Thats the rub. Personal courage and conviction applies, but the mission is flawed at its very core. So all that nice and poetic prose provided by Hollywood is just as believable as Jack Nicholson being a Marine. It's Iraq,which is as immoral as Vietnam was before it.
No. When you enlist you take an oath to
Quote:
and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice
I took it and didn't act like a coward when I had to go. YOU sign the contract on your own free will. He should be in prison for a number of years.
I took it and didn't act like a coward when I had to go. YOU sign the contract on your own free will. He should be in prison for a number of years.
They have the right to disobey what they consider a criminal order, and if they do indeed consider the invasion of Iraq a criminal one, they must fight for the right to prove their innocence. I wish him luck.
They have the right to disobey what they consider a criminal order, and if they do indeed consider the invasion of Iraq a criminal one, they must fight for the right to prove their innocence. I wish him luck.
Go back to the original post & read the article. He never said he was opposed to tha action because he thought it was unjust, or that he thought the invasion was crimminal. What he said was "I'm just not a fighter. I know it sounds funny, but I have a really soft heart."
After his prison time for desertion, he should be made to pay back the US Army for all the benefits he took from them under false pretenses.
After his prison time for desertion, he should be made to pay back the US Army for all the benefits he took from them under false pretenses.
And he probably will. But if he said "he's not a fighter", and "his heart is not into it" how could either happen if he didnt support the very policy that would have put him there? He, like others who refused to return to Iraq, are not all pure of heart. And he may not be, I dont know his motivations. It takes all kinds, I only know of a few who took principled stands on refusing to deploy there, the most high profile being Lt. Erin Watada from Washington State.
If the President (or some military "authority") orders me to do something for "my country" and I disagree, I get to say so and ignore the order. I get to serve my country MY way, and even not at all if I so choose. I am under no obligation to commit immoral acts or violence just because someone else considers it necessary. When one surrenders his will to another, he is lost. That describes all those who take the military seriously. What these same people don't get is that the whole enterprise is one of brainwashing and control. The military knows that people won't willingly do evil acts so it devises all methods of diversion, including making the whole thing look beneficial ("You'll get a great job with our training, son!"). They sell the idea of service to people who have been told they need to be useful to the collective, so why not let the military put them to work? The idea of "freedom" and "patriotism" etc, are all thrown in as enticements. You even get to wear a sexy uniform. Won't the girls back home swoon! You'll be a hero...which begs the question, what good is a dead hero? What's in it for him?
The person who stands up for their beliefs trumps all those men with their chests full of medals. But there will be many who insist I'm an unpatriotic pacifist, terrorist, communist, etc. I don't care. I'm right whether I survive the gunfire or not. And my ghost will laugh at my newfound freedom.
What a pile of cr@p. Bottom line - our military invaded countries that were no threat to us and butchered, maimed & slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Americans are the invaders; those who oppose and attack the American terrorist invaders are heroes and patriots.
You sir, may quickly and irrevocably go to the blazes. That'd be my future husband they're firing at, as well as 3 childhood friends.
If you like the "heroes and patriots" so much, go over there and stand in front of my fiance. That way you could help with your idea of patriotism and I'd be assured he'd come home to me in one piece.
If you like the "heroes and patriots" so much, go over there and stand in front of my fiance. That way you could help with your idea of patriotism and I'd be assured he'd come home to me in one piece.
If he just joined the military, and it is considered "patriotic" these days to join the military and deploy to Iraq and subjugate a people and call it "freedom", I'd say that alot of people, including Iraqi's, would like to tell America to stuff her freedom and mind her own f*($ing business. I hope your fiancee makes it home safe and sound, no Americans need to be there getting hurt or dying for the lies of neoconservatives.
I was in the Navy (Air Operations Officer) for 6 years, I recall numerous times where kids under my command would say they want out because they simply realize they were too soft to be in the military. I remember one kid writing a letter to me saying he just wasn't cut out to do it anymore, he also came into my office crying, and that was during peace time. I realize this guy is older and should realize it, but what can we do but punish him for deserting?
If he were smart, he would have just proclaimed a mental order and got out on a medical discharge like so many before him.
Just make him do his time and let him out with a dishonorable discharge, he is obviously not going to do a good job as a soldier.
And for every 1 'softy' there are 10 more gung-ho "ready to kill" kids out there in some poor town we can enlist....
So nice to see the ignorance of those who never served in the military show their contempt and hatred of the military and those who choose to serve. I'm not a fighter so I joined the Navy to work in the engine room of a ship. I still serve my country without getting into direct combat. There are many jobs in the military one can join up for that would not be in combat. Oh, and for those who like to think our military enjoys murdering innocent people like the example he gave in the article, try to think about this for a moment;...suicide bombers. Get close enough to the military and then detonate the bomb. If the locals obey the order to stop or step back then they aren't shot. If they continue to rush forward then they are a potential threat and must be shot before they can get close enough to kill them. Some things that happened in Vietnam included the Communist using women and babies as suicide bombers. The woman is given a baby and a handgrenade. She walks towards American soldiers. They miss their babies at home and crowd around the baby making baby noises to try to get the baby to laugh. While they're doing that, she pulls the pin blowing up herself, the baby, and the soldiers. Funny that islamic terrorist are using the same method used by Communist.
I think this says it as well as anything. This is the guy's quote:
"During my training, I was ordered that, if anyone came within so many feet of my vehicle, I was to shoot to kill," said Cornell, who enlisted in 2002 but never deployed to war. "I didn't join the military to kill innocents."
He said the order was if "anyone" approached his vehicle, shoot to kill. He then says "I didn't join the military to kill innocents."
That sounds as though he's acquainting "anyone" with an innocent, which may very well have not been the case. The military knew that not every threat was going to be wearing a uniform and especially at the onset, you should assume anyone is the enemy. Regardless, he never deployed. He never had to look at someone and wonder/decide if they were a threat or not.
That sort of thing did happen and went on even after we took Hussein down, if I recall correctly.
I had two brothers that served in 'Nam and the one talked about how one guy he had become friends with from his unit was killed. He had met a Vietnamese woman in Da Nang and was taking her to a place called the Blue Moon Bar. Before they went inside, he stopped to check his wallet. When he wasn't looking, she pulled out a pistol, shot him in the head and ran off. A couple of soldiers saw it and tried to catch her but they had been caught by surprise by the whole thing and lost her. My brother said that was his reality check. There had been many locals who were very friendly and accepting of our guys there but that reminded him that not everyone liked us being there.
The same held true in Iraq. For every 50 people that were happy to be out from under Hussein's thumb, there were a couple that looked at us as invaders, hated us, wanted to kill us and did their best to accomplish it.
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That'd be my future husband they're firing at, as well as 3 childhood friends.
