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Old 02-10-2009, 11:17 PM
 
3,282 posts, read 5,190,561 times
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I suspected this. By welcoming the GOP debate about the stimulus, and allowing changes to be made, Obama wins a twofold victory. First, the new stimulus is closer to what he proposed anyway, and anything else he wants can always be added in by the House-Senate negotiations. Nextly, by welcoming their arguments and conceding to some of their compromises, while they refused to budge, he makes himself look like the guy who took a hit to get things done while they were more concerned with saving face, thus giving himself more leeway with the public to be more agressive with them in the next debate.

Sooner or later, Republicans would be wise to realize that Obama is much, much more clever than they realize and they'll have to think steps ahead of him.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:22 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,833,768 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
I suspected this. By welcoming the GOP debate about the stimulus, and allowing changes to be made, Obama wins a twofold victory. First, the new stimulus is closer to what he proposed anyway, and anything else he wants can always be added in by the House-Senate negotiations. Nextly, by welcoming their arguments and conceding to some of their compromises, while they refused to budge, he makes himself look like the guy who took a hit to get things done while they were more concerned with saving face, thus giving himself more leeway with the public to be more agressive with them in the next debate.

Sooner or later, Republicans would be wise to realize that Obama is much, much more clever than they realize and they'll have to think steps ahead of him.
True politicaly it was a good move, it doesn't change the damage done to the stimulus package.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:25 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,226,632 times
Reputation: 55556
the good news that means the third reich behavior is quarantined to 30% of the population.
the other good news. rageaholics dont vote.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:51 AM
 
220 posts, read 673,743 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
Classic red herring argument. No one, and I mean no one, in the US pays nothing. Republicans like to pretend that the income tax is the only tax but in fact for most Americans, like 3 out of 4 Americans, their greatest tax burden isn't income taxes but instead is payroll taxes. Payroll taxes are also a horribly regressive tax because after $100,000 in income you stop paying pay roll taxes that means people making less then $100,000 per year pay those taxes on 100% of their income while the wealthy pay it only on a portion, often a small portion, of their income.

Giving the middle class a tax cut really is the best thing we can do for the economy because they're the most likely to spend it and thus stimulate new economic activity while, as we have repeatedly seen in the past, tax cuts for millionaires normally get saved often in foreign accounts so that doesn't stimulate much new economic activity here in the US.
So in other words, payroll tax is perhaps the most fair federal tax we have because it screws over the successful the least amount, while they still pay more, its not nearly as flawed as the income tax system. Yet we have people such as yourself that are extremely jealous of the so called wealthy and point your finger as the ones getting all the breaks, when in reality they are the ones getting screwed.
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:06 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,077,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxoccupancy View Post
Just the opposite. Remember that Bush and both parties in Congress were pushing through about $2 trillion in bailouts and stimilus spending, which Obama also voted for. The Rockefeller owned media (who are indirectly getting a lot of this money) are presenting a slanted view of the next round of spending: $800 billion in additional spending. The conservatives who have publicly opposed all of this new spending (the 25%) were not represented or listened to at all over the last eight years, and generally view Bush as a RINO.
What are the Rockefeller-owned media?

By "slanted view," what do you mean? Could you give some examples?
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:14 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,077,826 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetclimber View Post
[/b]


Personal attack 101 courtesy of a lock step liberal who likes to believe his own set of facts and push them off as the truth
I think the right wing blogs you're parroting say "lockstep liberal" - "lockstep" one word. So better stay in lockstep.

Joe Scarborough was indeed a GOP Representative. The piece from MSNBC was genuine, not a youtube edit. The Gallup Poll is real. How are any of these anyone's "own set of facts"?
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,897 posts, read 8,301,653 times
Reputation: 1911
Take a look at this graph produced by Moody's Investments a nonpartisan real economic company (not a fake astroturf group) which is a major Wall St credit ratings agency. It lists types of things the government can do to stimulate new economic activity along with exactly how economically stimulating it is. That is if you spend one dollar on each of these items how much new economic activity does it generate?



Everything in the green are items which Moody's Investments deems to be the best ways the government can spend money and generate the most economic stimulus for each dollar spent, tan are the break even items, while red are the negative items; meaning the return on investment is less then the original investment. The red items are goose eggs which the tax payers don't get much stimulus out of.

Now notice that the GOP has been slashing from the stimulus bill things like 1) Food Stamps 2) Extended Unemployment benefits 3) Infrastructure spending (also in this catagory are durable goods like ships, planes, and cars) and 4) Aid to states so that states don't have to cut back and fire workers. The GOP wants to eliminate all of those items or at the very least dramatically slash them claiming they are "pork". Instead the GOP wants to spend literally trillions of dollars on 1) Cutting the capital gains tax 2) Cutting corporate taxes (most of whom don't actually pay any taxes) 3) Making the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy permanent and of course 4) allow companies to accelerate depreciation right offs so that the 10% of corporations who do actually pay taxes no longer have to.

Gee, it's almost like the GOP is deliberately removing all the good stimulus and replacing it with tax cuts which have a negative return on investment and don't actually do any stimulating. I mean it is almost like they don't want the stimulus bill to work; why else would they be doing what they're doing? Now you know why most economists violently disagree with the GOP and why many people agree the GOP is attempting to sabotage the stimulus bill. They want the economy to tank because they want Obama to fail so they can regain power. They're willing to drag every American down the toilet if they have to because nothing matters to the GOP but regaining power.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:43 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,077,826 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
Take a look at this graph produced by Moody's Investments a nonpartisan real economic company (not a fake astroturf group) which is a major Wall St credit ratings agency. It lists types of things the government can do to stimulate new economic activity along with exactly how economically stimulating it is. That is if you spend one dollar on each of these items how much new economic activity does it generate?



Everything in the green are items which Moody's Investments deems to be the best ways the government can spend money and generate the most economic stimulus for each dollar spent, tan are the break even items, while red are the negative items; meaning the return on investment is less then the original investment. The red items are goose eggs which the tax payers don't get much stimulus out of.

Now notice that the GOP has been slashing from the stimulus bill things like 1) Food Stamps 2) Extended Unemployment benefits 3) Infrastructure spending (also in this catagory are durable goods like ships, planes, and cars) and 4) Aid to states so that states don't have to cut back and fire workers. The GOP wants to eliminate all of those items or at the very least dramatically slash them claiming they are "pork". Instead the GOP wants to spend literally trillions of dollars on 1) Cutting the capital gains tax 2) Cutting corporate taxes (most of whom don't actually pay any taxes) 3) Making the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy permanent and of course 4) allow companies to accelerate depreciation right offs so that the 10% of corporations who do actually pay taxes no longer have to.

Gee, it's almost like the GOP is deliberately removing all the good stimulus and replacing it with tax cuts which have a negative return on investment and don't actually do any stimulating. I mean it is almost like they don't want the stimulus bill to work; why else would they be doing what they're doing? Now you know why most economists violently disagree with the GOP and why many people agree the GOP is attempting to sabotage the stimulus bill. They want the economy to tank because they want Obama to fail so they can regain power. They're willing to drag every American down the toilet if they have to because nothing matters to the GOP but regaining power.
Yep!

Could you give a link to the graph?
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:46 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,897 posts, read 8,301,653 times
Reputation: 1911
Same graphic in gray scale: A meaningful stimulus for Main Street

Graphic in color: http://www.ourfuture.org/files/image...-of-stimul.jpg
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:47 AM
 
4,104 posts, read 5,299,162 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetclimber View Post
"Run my mouth" whatever dude, you are just some talking head in Mira Mesa. I did look at the clip and, coming from that false reporting network called msnbc, I can''t give it crediblity and no one else who thinks unbiased does either. Talk about looking stupid, think before you run your mouth

In all fairness, YouTube is more credible than MSNBC most of the time.
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