Why do Republicans/Conservatives hate Public Education so much? (Mexicans, attorneys, March)

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by backfist

Let me see if I can steer this back on topic. If government is the problem--in education, banking regulation, whatever--why would those who advocate private school continue to rely on them?

Because taxing bodies collect tax revenue for the purpose of educating students - though, some would rather opt out. Do we have that option? The European countries noted earlier fund both public and private. Why can't that work for the U.S.?

[boiseguy]

conservatives don't care about the overall society when it comes to public policy, and are more focused on the self... Bettering the self, relying on the self, for everything..with the belief that if everyone did that.. the society would be good... Which is actually a good philosophy, but it cannot be applied to everything in a country of 300 million people, because needless to say.. many innocent children are born into poverty, and other horrible situations that they didn't ask for.. a public education system that ensures everyone is able to get an education is the great equalizer in a society...
A child born to alcoholic parents that don't give two craps about them... is still able to be educated at the same school available to the child born with a silver spoon in their mouth... Granted.. the silver spoon fed child certainly has the option of private schools... but all the more power to fund the public school system...

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by boiseguy

conservatives don't care about the overall society when it comes to public policy, and are more focused on the self... Bettering the self, relying on the self, for everything..with the belief that if everyone did that.. the society would be good... Which is actually a good philosophy, but it cannot be applied to everything in a country of 300 million people, because needless to say.. many innocent children are born into poverty, and other horrible situations that they didn't ask for.. a public education system that ensures everyone is able to get an education is the great equalizer in a society...
A child born to alcoholic parents that don't give two craps about them... is still able to be educated at the same school available to the child born with a silver spoon in their mouth... Granted.. the silver spoon fed child certainly has the option of private schools... but all the more power to fund the public school system...

The problem is that the 'great equalizer' has dumbed our kids down to the point that they lag the rest of the industrialized world. Some people don't want their kids dumbed down; they want them to have a fighting chance at being competitive in the global economy.

There's a plus to giving people a choice, as well. Better educated higher income earners pay a huge percentage of the tax revenue. The top 10% - $108,904 or more annual salary (2006 figures) - of income earners pay 70.79% of the federal income taxes collected.
Who Pays Income Taxes? See Who Pays What

[Yeledaf]

Originally Posted by boiseguy

conservatives don't care about the overall society when it comes to public policy, and are more focused on the self... Bettering the self, relying on the self, for everything..with the belief that if everyone did that.. the society would be good... Which is actually a good philosophy, but it cannot be applied to everything in a country of 300 million people, because needless to say.. many innocent children are born into poverty, and other horrible situations that they didn't ask for.. a public education system that ensures everyone is able to get an education is the great equalizer in a society...
A child born to alcoholic parents that don't give two craps about them... is still able to be educated at the same school available to the child born with a silver spoon in their mouth... Granted.. the silver spoon fed child certainly has the option of private schools... but all the more power to fund the public school system...

Turning that argument around, liberals believe that it is somehow immoral for people to be self-reliant, confusing the latter quality with selfishness, and forgetting that it takes self-reliant and independent people to fund the public policy intiaitves that liberals rely upon.

The big dirty secret (which is not a secret at all, of course) is that people are not equal. That we should provide equal opportunity for all is obviously simple justice; but to expect -- no, demand, as liberals are wont to do --- equal achievement, out of a misguided sense of compassion and empathy, in a world which relies so strongly on other qualities than those, is the height of irresponsiblity, both on the individual and the collective level.

We need to balance our approach to things as important as public education, and recognize what both sides bring to the debate. Demonizing others ("conservatives don't care about the overall society when it comes to public policy") is not a productive way to proceed.

[Bill Keegan]

Originally Posted by backfist

So you want education without government meddling ... but you want the government's money to do it.

The government has no money of it's own. It has the money we CHOOSE to let it have. What I want is the OPTION to give the government LESS of my money (not necessarily NONE, as I appreciate that taxes paid by the people who can afford them are going to pay for public schools) for the public schools, so I can use some of it to put my kid in a school that works, if I feel the public school isn't doing the job I want.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by backfist

The same reason that Big Auto and Big Banking can go to Capitol Hill and demand billion$. The same reason that our cities say Yes to a new football/baseball/basketball "megaplex", and No to an education "megaplex". The same reason that we say Yes to a $100/mo. cable TV bill and No a $.10 tax for education.

We, as a whole, don't value kids' education the way we value material goods and possessions.

Ah ... We pay more per pupil than most other nations and yet our government needs MORE money to teach our kids? Why does many people think that blindly throwing more money would yield better results when we pay more than most nations per pupil but our kids are lagging behind other nations! Show us RESULTS then we can talk about paying MORE for public education!

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by backfist

I didn't say money. I said value. We can throw money at anything. It doesn't mean that we value it.

So I'll say it again; we, as a society, don't value educating our kids--all of them--as much as we value less important things.

If society did not value education, then we would not even be having the debate over vouchers! If parents did not value education, then they would be content with the mediocre quality of our public school system not fighting for the option of having access to better schools via the voucher system.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by backfist

Without veering too far off the subject ...

Yes, those private sector businessmen and women did it to themselves. They knew exactly what they were doing; they were aware of all of the risks involved with loose lending; and they concluded that the risks were worth the rewards. And now--by begging the governement to bail them out of the mess they've created--they're showing us just how much business acumen they possess.

Our all-knowing government required lenders to relax their standards so more folks with bad credit and minorities would quality for a home loan. Yeah ... The government had it's heavy hand in this financial crisis along with greedy lenders and clueless borrowers!

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by backfist

So you want education without government meddling ... but you want the government's money to do it.

Let me see if I can clarify things ... Since our government MANDATES us to pay taxes to fund our public school system, then we the parents who pay taxes would like a better OPTION for our tax dollars so our kids can have a better quality education if the public school is not meeting our children's needs. If the public school is doing its job, then we will CHOOSE to keep our children there. If the school is performing poorly (despite all the money we pay per pupil), then we would like the OPTION to use OUR tax dollars and send our children to an alternate school so they can receive the education that would make prepare them for the real world! The voucher amount would be the same for every child. If the voucher does not cover the entire education costs of the private school, then it is the parent's responsibility to pay the difference. I hope that clarifies things for you.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by backfist

So you want education without government meddling ... but you want the government's money to do it.

By the way ... It isn't the "government's money" ... It's the TAXPAYER's money and we, the taxpayers, should have a say as to how the money is used! If the government is not doing it's job of educating our children via our tax dollars, then we have the right to ask the government to return some of that money (in the form of vouchers) so we can obtain a decent education for our children!