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Old 02-13-2009, 03:41 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,734,323 times
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Probably on booze,drugs or the casino - the stuff you cant use food stamps on.
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Old 02-15-2009, 07:59 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,181,310 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by bornandraised atl View Post
My horse is not very high--- and I really enjoy strip clubs, booze, and flat screens....and I just read that about Lincoln as well...

With that being said ---- do you think the 'poor' are aware they are pawns in this political game? if they are aware... would they care?

I believe something needs to be done and I believe that some of the stimulus is geared toward helping the economy and some is a political game - hence my post

As to what need to be done - no one knows and most of the smartest financial minds on earth have very -very - differing views on what to do....
Do you really think there is complete transparency in politics at ANY level? I think it is a little silly that you are so offended about the 'ignorant poor' who are 'pawns' in this huge scheme. A lot of middle class people were ignorant enough to be stuck in the mortgage crisis, most are you going to crusade for them as well? What do you want to do, call together everyone making under x dollars/year and explain to them that politics isn't straightforward? I think everyone already knows that...
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:10 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,565,345 times
Reputation: 22474
The so-called poor will spend it because it's not actually a refund to them. It's not their own money being returned to them. The so-called poor already pay no taxes, this money is the money of others given to them. Those who really get a refund, money that they earned in the first place will be more responsible, use it to pay down bills.
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:30 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,431 posts, read 18,964,165 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The so-called poor will spend it because it's not actually a refund to them. It's not their own money being returned to them. The so-called poor already pay no taxes, this money is the money of others given to them. Those who really get a refund, money that they earned in the first place will be more responsible, use it to pay down bills.
god forbid that the gov't actually lends a hand to those of who actually contribute.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:04 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The so-called poor will spend it because it's not actually a refund to them. It's not their own money being returned to them. The so-called poor already pay no taxes, this money is the money of others given to them. Those who really get a refund, money that they earned in the first place will be more responsible, use it to pay down bills.
It's not your money that's being returned to you. Taxes are what YOU OWE to the government as your fair share of the cost of public goods and services produced and provided. Freeloaders not welcome, thank you.

Everyone pays taxes. Even though the federal income tax rate on the average worker in the lowest 20% was -6.2% in 2005 on account of the EITC, the total federal tax burden faced was +4.3%, mostly as the result of payroll and federal excise taxes. Net federal taxes paid by such a worker in 2005 would have been about $600. Do you think you somehow deserve your "hard earned" money back more than he does?

Paying down bills is exactly what the stimulus planners hope you will NOT do. That takes money out of the fast lane and puts in the slow lane. That inhibits growth in demand and job creation. Try to remember that the old saying is that you save up FOR a rainy day, not ON one.
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:12 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,431 posts, read 18,964,165 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
It's not your money that's being returned to you. Taxes are what YOU OWE to the government as your fair share of the cost of public goods and services produced and provided. Freeloaders not welcome, thank you.

Everyone pays taxes. Even though the federal income tax rate on the average worker in the lowest 20% was -6.2% in 2005 on account of the EITC, the total federal tax burden faced was +4.3%, mostly as the result of payroll and federal excise taxes. Net federal taxes paid by such a worker in 2005 would have been about $600. Do you think you somehow deserve your "hard earned" money back more than he does?

Paying down bills is exactly what the stimulus planners hope you will NOT do. That takes money out of the fast lane and puts in the slow lane. That inhibits growth in demand and job creation. Try to remember that the old saying is that you save up FOR a rainy day, not ON one.
Yes, those who actually PAY taxes do deserve their own $$ back. Those who pay the so called "payroll taxes" WILL eventually get them back (assuming that they live long enough) in the form of social security and medicare benefits. At least in today's world, the poorer classes also receive a higher proportion of what they paid into the system than those workaholics who slaved away since they were 15 years old or so. If the gov't REALLY has to give money back, why not devise a "voucher" system that can ONLY be redeemed to purchase hard goods/food/gasoline/lottery tickets, etc and not be socked away to pay bills by the "rich" middle class folk that you despise. This could be given to the taxpayers b/c the vouchers would ONLY be spent on those goods, money FORCED to go back into the economy not into a bamk account or paying off bills. And they really should stop giving refunds just b/c some ppl can't keep their legs closed and breed too many kids.

It seems to me that the technology must be there to administer such a program. Shoot, if the gov't is going to be "pissing away" money every few years, they ought to plan ahead for the next giveaway.

Last edited by wehotex; 02-15-2009 at 05:21 PM..
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: stairway to heaven
1,133 posts, read 711,019 times
Reputation: 242
"Freeloaders not welcome, thank you"??? Are you suggesting we export the poor? You seem confused regards your own politics. So does everyone pay or only your neighbors,- only who "you say pays? Socialism is only the greatest system, up to the point that your neighbor runs out of money! Yup, I believe that could be you from the sounds of it. AAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAA!
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:26 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
Yes, those who actually PAY taxes do deserve their own $$ back. Those who pay the so called "payroll taxes" WILL eventually get them back (assuming that they live long enough) in the form of social security and medicare benefits.
We don't eventually have a problem. We have one right now. The only reason low-income workers do not pay net income taxes is because of welfare reform. You remember that. Workfare. We moved all the people off the welfare rolls over at HHS and put them on the rolls over at IRS instead. Now, if they work, they get their benefits as refundable income tax credits. The average bottom quintile worker would make about $16,000 per year. Now, his or her EITC would go on top of that, but after paying all of the other federal taxes, net income would still be better than $600 short of what it started out at. So, tell me your sob story again. How is it that YOU deserve a tax refund to help jump-start the economy, but these people don't?
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:34 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
"Freeloaders not welcome, thank you"??? Are you suggesting we export the poor?
Try reading for context. It's actually a very important part of things, so if you miss it, you might be left out in the cold. The OP's thesis was that taxes are HIS money. That's wrong. They are what he owes as his fair share for public goods and services produced for the benefit of a society that he is a willing member of. When he tries to deny the existence of his obligation to pay taxes, he is trying to consume public goods and services without having to pay for them. That makes him a freeloader, or at least a freeloader wannabe. Was it any easier to follow along this time?
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,253,323 times
Reputation: 55556
im am 99 cent store bound, i am goin on such a spending spree.
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