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When this stimulus package proves to be a colossal waste of money that only succeeds in plunging our nation further into debt I hope you all cry off with his head like you did with Bush over every little thing.
When this stimulus package proves to be a colossal waste of money that only succeeds in plunging our nation further into debt I hope you all cry off with his head like you did with Bush over every little thing.
Theres so much in the bill that does nothing to create jobs..
And create jobs that will last!!!!!!!
If we are going to spend money we dont have, dont waste a dime!
How many money went to stupid digital tv coupons,National Endowment..
For the Arts,birth control education(overseas)Etc
..There is plenty of stuff in the bill to create jobs. But jobs are something you do in high school or college, what we need are careers that actually last more than a year or two.
..There is plenty of stuff in the bill to create jobs. But jobs are something you do in high school or college, what we need are careers that actually last more than a year or two.
are you supposed to be rewarded a nice cushy career because you are breathing and an american
Well they are at it again. If there is one thing the conservatives know how to do it is to tell a LIE. And they are good at it. Tell a lie over and over and long enough and soon people will think the lie is the truth.
Now they are trashing FDR and the New Deal with this line: "the New Deal and FDR'S government spending did not bring us out of the Depression but World War II did".
This of course is a LIE and if you think about it logically, it is also STUPID. The fact is that, even before WW2 unemployment had fallen over 10% from the time FDR took office until WW2. Yes, it was high at 14% but that was a hell of alot better than 25% when he took office. So while it did not "end" the Depression, it was on the way to doing so.
Secondly, how is it that WW2 "ended the Depression"? It is not because of the war but because of the GOVERNMENT SPENDING on the war! It was because the US Government was spending 25% of GDP on tanks, guns, planes, ships and everything else! It does not matter if the government is spending on guns or on bridges and schools- it is still government spending that creates jobs in the economy!
The difference here is a critical one- war spending does not have any future multiplier. Once you buy a tank, it is either destroyed in the war or mothballed after the war. It does not have an ongoing benefit to the country or to the economy. If you build a highway, bridge or school, that has a great multiplier to the economy. People continue to use that for economic activity AFTER the project is finished. It leads to permanent employment of highway workers, state police officers, teachers, firefighters and paramedics. It leads of private employment of warehouse workers, truck drivers and others.
So Obama really has the right idea here. He is effectively having a WW 2 spending program- without the war itself!
Ahh yes even if we can agree on what the government spendings money on they werent in debt like we are now and most importantly what happened when the war was over. Government didnt just stop it grew and found new ways to waste money. But then again to defend a country actually is something in the constitution and money can be used for that. NOT BAILING OUT auto makers and homeowners and whatelse they thru in this bill, like a new park in california <----- really
Well they are at it again. If there is one thing the conservatives know how to do it is to tell a LIE. And they are good at it. Tell a lie over and over and long enough and soon people will think the lie is the truth.
Now they are trashing FDR and the New Deal with this line: "the New Deal and FDR'S government spending did not bring us out of the Depression but World War II did".
This of course is a LIE and if you think about it logically, it is also STUPID. The fact is that, even before WW2 unemployment had fallen over 10% from the time FDR took office until WW2. Yes, it was high at 14% but that was a hell of alot better than 25% when he took office. So while it did not "end" the Depression, it was on the way to doing so.
Secondly, how is it that WW2 "ended the Depression"? It is not because of the war but because of the GOVERNMENT SPENDING on the war! It was because the US Government was spending 25% of GDP on tanks, guns, planes, ships and everything else! It does not matter if the government is spending on guns or on bridges and schools- it is still government spending that creates jobs in the economy!
The difference here is a critical one- war spending does not have any future multiplier. Once you buy a tank, it is either destroyed in the war or mothballed after the war. It does not have an ongoing benefit to the country or to the economy. If you build a highway, bridge or school, that has a great multiplier to the economy. People continue to use that for economic activity AFTER the project is finished. It leads to permanent employment of highway workers, state police officers, teachers, firefighters and paramedics. It leads of private employment of warehouse workers, truck drivers and others.
So Obama really has the right idea here. He is effectively having a WW 2 spending program- without the war itself!
You are in effect 180 off. World War II did have the effect of ending the Great Depression because it brought about a NET EXPANSION of the US economy in two ways. An increased manufacturing capacity to fill the production need of industrial goods not previously being produced, and a corresponding two fold increase in the demand for labor (troops being activated and workers needed to fill the expanding industrial base). And while the US economy did in fact naturally contract somewhat at the end of the war, the increased manufacturing base DID remain largely in production and net US industrial output continued at much higher than pre-war levels due to the widespread destruction of overseas manufacturing capacity, and subsequent rebuilding demand for US industrial goods abroad. By definition, expansion of an economy is the opposite of contraction (depression).
Obama’s “stimulus” package will not have the same effect because it will not EXPAND the US economy. It may re-employ people who recently lost their jobs, but does not result in a lasting net increase in demand because overseas capacity and competition does not change. Domestic infrastructure jobs are the ones without any “future multiplier” as you put it because they do little to stimulate increased demand once the initial capital expenditure is over. Only expansion of the manufacturing base into new areas to meet NEW demand has the multiplication effect you describe.
The one new area that Obama and the Dems are banking on to make their plan work is the increased production of green enery technology (wind turbines, PV panels, ect). However, it remains to bee seen if the demands for those types of goods would ever come close to the demand for tanks, guns etc as seen in WWII (particularly as a percentage of a now much higher GDP). And again, much of what will be produced today is done in automated factories that employ lower ratios of workers, or can be done with existing overseas capacity.
Your ignorance of basic economics does not make something a lie.
You are in effect 180 off. World War II did have the effect of ending the Great Depression because it brought about a NET EXPANSION of the US economy in two ways. An increased manufacturing capacity to fill the production need of industrial goods not previously being produced, and a corresponding two fold increase in the demand for labor (troops being activated and workers needed to fill the expanding industrial base). And while the US economy did in fact naturally contract somewhat at the end of the war, the increased manufacturing base DID remain largely in production and net US industrial output continued at much higher than pre-war levels due to the widespread destruction of overseas manufacturing capacity, and subsequent rebuilding demand for US industrial goods abroad. By definition, expansion of an economy is the opposite of contraction (depression)..
Thats what he said the war was the new deal on steriods. You are agreeing that government created jobs that didn't disappear but in fact continued and led to long term growth.
Quote:
Obama’s “stimulus” package will not have the same effect because it will not EXPAND the US economy. It may re-employ people who recently lost their jobs, but does not result in a lasting net increase in demand because overseas capacity and competition does not change. Domestic infrastructure jobs are the ones without any “future multiplier” as you put it because they do little to stimulate increased demand once the initial capital expenditure is over. Only expansion of the manufacturing base into new areas to meet NEW demand has the multiplication effect you describe.
I guess we can thank the republicans for ignoring our countries needs and we now have enough demand since we are about twenty five years behind. Hey I guess the stimulus is buying us plenty of time to create new demand.
Quote:
The one new area that Obama is banking on is the increased production of green enery technology (wind turbines, PV panels, ect). However, it remains to bee seen if the demands for the goods would ever come close to the demand for tanks, guns etc as seen in WWII (particularly as a percentage of a now much higher GDP). And again, much of what will be produced today is done in automated factories that employ lower ratios of workers, or can be done with existing overseas capacity
.
Yep so lets build new factories lots of jobs their. Make it less profitable to ship jobs overseas. I think Obama talked about it sounds like you are a fan.
Quote:
Your ignorance of basic economics does not make something a lie.
Perhaps you should educate us on what needs to be done since you agreed with Kev while saying that you don't .
Well they are at it again. If there is one thing the conservatives know how to do it is to tell a LIE. And they are good at it. Tell a lie over and over and long enough and soon people will think the lie is the truth.
Now they are trashing FDR and the New Deal with this line: "the New Deal and FDR'S government spending did not bring us out of the Depression but World War II did".
This of course is a LIE and if you think about it logically, it is also STUPID. The fact is that, even before WW2 unemployment had fallen over 10% from the time FDR took office until WW2. Yes, it was high at 14% but that was a hell of alot better than 25% when he took office. So while it did not "end" the Depression, it was on the way to doing so.
Secondly, how is it that WW2 "ended the Depression"? It is not because of the war but because of the GOVERNMENT SPENDING on the war! It was because the US Government was spending 25% of GDP on tanks, guns, planes, ships and everything else! It does not matter if the government is spending on guns or on bridges and schools- it is still government spending that creates jobs in the economy!
The difference here is a critical one- war spending does not have any future multiplier. Once you buy a tank, it is either destroyed in the war or mothballed after the war. It does not have an ongoing benefit to the country or to the economy. If you build a highway, bridge or school, that has a great multiplier to the economy. People continue to use that for economic activity AFTER the project is finished. It leads to permanent employment of highway workers, state police officers, teachers, firefighters and paramedics. It leads of private employment of warehouse workers, truck drivers and others.
So Obama really has the right idea here. He is effectively having a WW 2 spending program- without the war itself!
The Great Depression era was a different time and a different world.
The comparisons of the latest stimulus to the new deal aren't accurate.
And around here on city data everyone thinks they are an economist.
Perhaps you should educate us on what needs to be done since you agreed with Kev while saying that you don't .
First you would need to put on your reading glasses since you obviously didn't comprehend what was written in front of your face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamexican
Thats what he said the war was the new deal on steriods. You are agreeing that government created jobs that didn't disappear but in fact continued and led to long term growth.
NO, the Government did not create those jobs. It is the demand for products that creates jobs i.e. the Market. In the case of WWII, the market demand was for more tanks, guns, etc. After the war, increased US manufacturing capacity remained in service because the demand for US goods continued in order to support the rebuilding efforts.
In the situation today the demand is for what exactly? Obama can build all of the factories he wants, but if there is no (or only a very small) demand for those products it is a waste of time and money.
Conservative Republicans are the true scum of the earth, it started with Nixon, became accepted during the Reagan administration and we are just seeing the effects of their actions during the Bush era
Lets hope some how the Republican greed and dispicability will come to an end, these people have no role in any future humanity, it is a shame we cant do something about them as far as punishing them, but hopefully more people wake up, hopefully in a few years Fox News will have to go off the air because people will see what it really is, sadly there are still millions of people who are brainwashed by these people
Lol!!!
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